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  #51241  
Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM
cdm61 cdm61 is offline
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There is no bespoke - its single market and the rules or a 3rd party free trade deal like Canada.
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  #51242  
Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
This far in and Brexiters still don't understand that the EU is a rules based system. It's astonishing.
It's called "arrogance".
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  #51243  
Old Yesterday, 12:43 PM
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weltklasse weltklasse is offline
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Originally Posted by McpfcS View Post
I agree it will be complex so that’s hardly a “hole” in the argument.
The fact that your view on Norway is not supported by either Norway or the EU is a gaping void you now ignore.
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Originally Posted by McpfcS View Post
Sure
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  #51244  
Old Yesterday, 01:43 PM
McpfcS McpfcS is offline
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
The fact that your view on Norway is not supported by either Norway or the EU is a gaping void you now ignore.

Mate do your research - Norway does not have full access to the SM. Fisheries, agriculture and others are not included.
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  #51245  
Old Yesterday, 01:49 PM
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weltklasse weltklasse is offline
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Originally Posted by McpfcS View Post
Mate do your research - Norway does not have full access to the SM. Fisheries, agriculture and others are not included.
I have you need to. you know they have concluded a separate agreements over agriculture and fisheries I provided the link a while back. Post 51073 if you are interested
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Last edited by weltklasse; Yesterday at 01:53 PM.
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  #51246  
Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
I have you need to. you know they have concluded a separate agreements over agriculture and fisheries I provided the link a while back. Post 51073 if you are interested

Exactly
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  #51247  
Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by McpfcS View Post
Sure
I assume that is sarcasm or cynicism, neither of which I have a problem with so let me address your doubts.

There is no legal way that the EU27 can grant full Single Market access to a non-EU member outside of the EEA/EFTA agreement, which leaves those 3 countries outside of anything that is not part of the commercial/trade relationship (i.e. they don't participate in CAP, foreign policy etc etc) but for that relationship they must pay the cost without being able to negotiate the terms.

This is what the UK wanted in the 80s. Essentially, Thatcher's thesis was that in return for the price of club membership then we wanted to maximise the benefits, we being a more mercantile and utilitarian nation than the rest. In the private sector, this is known as monetisation. (And remember that at that time our government was still in the grip of monetary theory.)

In return for winning that argument, the (eventual) abolishing of all regulatory obstacles to exchange, we accepted (because we wanted other countries to be so) all EU states being bound to a set of strict conditions. These include the standards for goods, but also interpretation by the EU court as an arbiter in disputes.

Now, let us imagine that there is more wriggle room in this than I have described. Let us assume, for these purposes, that Germany wants to give us latitude because it sees this to its own advantage. Now, despite what Brexiteers say, Germany can not overrule 26 other Member States. The UK-EU trade deal, or whatever it turns out to be, must be done by unanimous agreement. It will only take one state to oppose and the deal is not done. Now, here consider the price of the next big UK driven EU reform, after Thatcher: enlargement (under Blair). Politically sound but the consequence is that small states, with often under 30 years of post-Soviet development, need to have the capacity to manage and they are not like Germany with its highly developed legal and governance system.

In my experience, capacity to implement, deliver, manage etc is a prime driver in intra EU negotiations. Many new Members want to rest on EU competence (powers) because they don't have the resources to reinvent all that. Not yet. (With exceptions e.g. Estonia springs to mind.) The private sector understand this: capacity, the limit of resources, is what drives expansion or lack of it.
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  #51248  
Old Yesterday, 02:11 PM
McpfcS McpfcS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
I assume that is sarcasm or cynicism, neither of which I have a problem with so let me address your doubts.

There is no legal way that the EU27 can grant full Single Market access to a non-EU member outside of the EEA/EFTA agreement, which leaves those 3 countries outside of anything that is not part of the commercial/trade relationship (i.e. they don't participate in CAP, foreign policy etc etc) but for that relationship they must pay the cost without being able to negotiate the terms.

This is what the UK wanted in the 80s. Essentially, Thatcher's thesis was that in return for the price of club membership then we wanted to maximise the benefits, we being a more mercantile and utilitarian nation than the rest. In the private sector, this is known as monetisation. (And remember that at that time our government was still in the grip of monetary theory.)

In return for winning that argument, the (eventual) abolishing of all regulatory obstacles to exchange, we accepted (because we wanted other countries to be so) all EU states being bound to a set of strict conditions. These include the standards for goods, but also interpretation by the EU court as an arbiter in disputes.

Now, let us imagine that there is more wriggle room in this than I have described. Let us assume, for these purposes, that Germany wants to give us latitude because it sees this to its own advantage. Now, despite what Brexiteers say, Germany can not overrule 26 other Member States. The UK-EU trade deal, or whatever it turns out to be, must be done by unanimous agreement. It will only take one state to oppose and the deal is not done. Now, here consider the price of the next big UK driven EU reform, after Thatcher: enlargement (under Blair). Politically sound but the consequence is that small states, with often under 30 years of post-Soviet development, need to have the capacity to manage and they are not like Germany with its highly developed legal and governance system.

In my experience, capacity to implement, deliver, manage etc is a prime driver in intra EU negotiations. Many new Members want to rest on EU competence (powers) because they don't have the resources to reinvent all that. Not yet. (With exceptions e.g. Estonia springs to mind.) The private sector understand this: capacity, the limit of resources, is what drives expansion or lack of it.

I was agreeing with you
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  #51249  
Old Yesterday, 03:13 PM
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mik59 mik59 is offline
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Originally Posted by McpfcS View Post
I was agreeing with you
Ack! Apologies then.
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  #51250  
Old Yesterday, 08:35 PM
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