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  #661  
Old 13-06-2018, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dorking .Eagle View Post
Survey on the Palace Trust website regarding safe standing

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Use surveymonkey (or similar) - I think it is free for such a short survey
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  #662  
Old 13-06-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
I
The logical thing for us to do in the Holmesdale is to start with all of Block B, the top half of Block C and then maybe the back 5-6 rows of D & E
That's regression on our current set up.

Out of 20K home Palace fans or whatever I'm sure we would get MUCH more interest than that - should be aiming for enough people wanting to be a part of a new supporter initiative to fill the lower holmesdale. The smallest we should be aiming for is the first 5 rows to be sitting only and the rest to be safe standing. The lower Holmesdale is our 'cop end' and needs to have the maximum effect possible to boost our atmosphere. This will be a one off chance I reckon - lets make it count
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  #663  
Old 13-06-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sniper View Post
That's regression on our current set up.

Out of 20K home Palace fans or whatever I'm sure we would get MUCH more interest than that - should be aiming for enough people wanting to be a part of a new supporter initiative to fill the lower holmesdale. The smallest we should be aiming for is the first 5 rows to be sitting only and the rest to be safe standing. The lower Holmesdale is our 'cop end' and needs to have the maximum effect possible to boost our atmosphere. This will be a one off chance I reckon - lets make it count
I was thinking of it on a trial basis, it shouldn't necessarily mean the rest should have to sit but at least the option is there. maybe once the new stand is built it can be done properly but until then it should be limited.
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  #664  
Old 13-06-2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
I was thinking of it on a trial basis, it shouldn't necessarily mean the rest should have to sit but at least the option is there. maybe once the new stand is built it can be done properly but until then it should be limited.
Thing is we stand a good chance of being left far behind by then, look at all the other clubs, they're talking of doing whole ends with rail seating (without messing about waiting for new stands) or like spurs, massive standing areas.

One thing we often let ourselves down in as a club is not making bold moves, striking whilst the irons hot and capitalising on our strengths to push to the next level. Make no mistake our supporters have been pushing for this since the start, lets not mess about with small trial areas etc but lead the way and go all in.
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  #665  
Old 14-06-2018, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by les aigles View Post
Thing is we stand a good chance of being left far behind by then, look at all the other clubs, they're talking of doing whole ends with rail seating (without messing about waiting for new stands) or like spurs, massive standing areas.

One thing we often let ourselves down in as a club is not making bold moves, striking whilst the irons hot and capitalising on our strengths to push to the next level. Make no mistake our supporters have been pushing for this since the start, lets not mess about with small trial areas etc but lead the way and go all in.
Personally I want to sit nowadays but still consider myself to be a fan. I support safe standing though a) because it seems to work elsewhere and b) because it becomes annoying when you have spent a lot of money to take your family (especially to away games) and you find that you yourself have no choice but to stand or move elsewhere so that they can all see. So let’s move hope it happens, but let’s not also assume all fans, even in the lower Holmesdale, want to stand

Last edited by Yogya; 14-06-2018 at 12:21 AM.
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  #666  
Old 14-06-2018, 07:31 AM
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Looking at the Shrewsbury vid, it should be possible to do one row at a time starting from the back, this means its possible to do it between games. It depends on the will of the club to do it.

We should do the whole of the lower Holmesdale to maximise atmosphere.
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  #667  
Old 14-06-2018, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Looking at the Shrewsbury vid, it should be possible to do one row at a time starting from the back, this means its possible to do it between games. It depends on the will of the club to do it.

We should do the whole of the lower Holmesdale to maximise atmosphere.
The team needs to play like they did in the latter part of last season to maximise atmosphere.
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  #668  
Old 14-06-2018, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by les aigles View Post
Thing is we stand a good chance of being left far behind by then, look at all the other clubs, they're talking of doing whole ends with rail seating (without messing about waiting for new stands) or like spurs, massive standing areas.

One thing we often let ourselves down in as a club is not making bold moves, striking whilst the irons hot and capitalising on our strengths to push to the next level. Make no mistake our supporters have been pushing for this since the start, lets not mess about with small trial areas etc but lead the way and go all in.
I get where you're coming from but there has to be some sensitivity here to those fans in the lower who wish to sit, especially with the current capacity restrictions. Block B has been standing since day 1 so surely has to be the first to try it?

Anyway, even if the government do give the go ahead I'm fairly sure it will only be on a limited trial basis to start with so not sure we'll have much say about that.
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  #669  
Old 14-06-2018, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
I get where you're coming from but there has to be some sensitivity here to those fans in the lower who wish to sit, especially with the current capacity restrictions. Block B has been standing since day 1 so surely has to be the first to try it?

Anyway, even if the government do give the go ahead I'm fairly sure it will only be on a limited trial basis to start with so not sure we'll have much say about that.
I canít remember much sensitivity being shown when thousands of us in the AW enclosure were told we had to sit and lose that wonderful terrace. Few years later, 12,000 fans on the Holmesdale also given no choice.

Yes I know Iím being somewhat facetious, but in total we lost around 20,000 standing places and if you didnít like it, it was tough luck.

Hence Iím not sure I can afford too much sympathy to any disgruntled fans, should the club propose to create 5,000 rail seats in the lower Hol.
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  #670  
Old 14-06-2018, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
I get where you're coming from but there has to be some sensitivity here to those fans in the lower who wish to sit, especially with the current capacity restrictions. Block B has been standing since day 1 so surely has to be the first to try it?

Anyway, even if the government do give the go ahead I'm fairly sure it will only be on a limited trial basis to start with so not sure we'll have much say about that.
How is a trial basis ever going to work unless they force fans to sit down elsewhere.

We all know rail seats work so sticking them in Block B when the whole of Block C will still be standing is a nonsense. Also some in Block B will just use the rail seats to launch themselves in the air for a bit of body surfing.
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Last edited by dave_who_ru; 14-06-2018 at 10:31 PM.
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  #671  
Old 14-06-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dave_who_ru View Post
How is a trial basis ever going to work unless they force fans to sit down elsewhere.

We all know rail seats work so sticking them in Block B when the whole of Block C will still be standing is a nonsense. Also some in Block B will just use the rail seats to launch themselves in the air for a bit of body surfing.
I'm fairly sure the trial's main objective would be to see if fan behaviour gets worse because of it. Of course we all know it won't but the authorities aren't quite up to date on these things.

Of course those that currently stand in blocks C & D will probably continue to do so and they will eventually become rail seats but I think a bit of patience is required. The long game on this is to let the process gradually evolve into what the fans want but to ensure the balance is right. Personally I would love to see the whole lower tier as rail seating, I just think it's better to take some time to get there.
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  #672  
Old 15-06-2018, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Yogya View Post
Personally I want to sit nowadays but still consider myself to be a fan. I support safe standing though a) because it seems to work elsewhere and b) because it becomes annoying when you have spent a lot of money to take your family (especially to away games) and you find that you yourself have no choice but to stand or move elsewhere so that they can all see. So letís move hope it happens, but letís not also assume all fans, even in the lower Holmesdale, want to stand
I don't assume that, but something has to give, and the LH is the obvious choice for standing. The last thing we need to NIMBY's in our own areas, those who stood on the Holmesdale terrace when they were young, now sitting and kicking up a fuss to deny those youngsters from standing there in the future.
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  #673  
Old 15-06-2018, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy Rhino View Post
This is the reply I received from my local tory MP :

Dear Mr ,

Thank you for contacting me about safe standing.

The Government believes that all-seater stadiums are the best means to ensure the safety and security of spectators at football grounds in England and Wales. All-seater stadiums have helped improve crowd management, crowd behaviour and policing. They provide better and more comfortable facilities to enjoy football matches, which has helped encourage inclusivity and diversity amongst those attending.

I understand that the Government is continuing to monitor the issue of spectator accommodation and the use of safe standing where it is permitted, but Ministers are not persuaded by the case put forward to re-introduce standing accommodation in grounds in the top two divisions covered by the all-seater policy, at present.

I also think there are other ways of dealing with persistent standing, aside from introducing safe standing. For example, I would like to see the regulations to deal with persistent standing enforced more consistently.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Yours sincerely,

Nus Ghani MP

What a Tory

Billy you should send a link of this thread to him, precisely here so he can see the response from actual supporters.
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  #674  
Old 15-06-2018, 07:33 AM
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What a Tory

Billy you should send a link of this thread to him, precisely here so he can see the response from actual supporters.


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  #675  
Old 15-06-2018, 07:39 AM
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What a Tory

Billy you should send a link of this thread to him, precisely here so he can see the response from actual supporters.
To be fair to Nus I think that was a standard government response, of which they've since changed their tune a bit.
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  #676  
Old 15-06-2018, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
I don't assume that, but something has to give, and the LH is the obvious choice for standing. The last thing we need to NIMBY's in our own areas, those who stood on the Holmesdale terrace when they were young, now sitting and kicking up a fuss to deny those youngsters from standing there in the future.
Totally agree. One of the big positives that should come from this is to encourage younger fans to come to football with their mates like we used to. Saying that I see this as the next step in stadium enhancement rather than just some nostalgic, retrogressive step, as it will benefit both those who wish to sit or stand. It will create a choice.
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Old 15-06-2018, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord Flange View Post
I can’t remember much sensitivity being shown when thousands of us in the AW enclosure were told we had to sit and lose that wonderful terrace. Few years later, 12,000 fans on the Holmesdale also given no choice.

Yes I know I’m being somewhat facetious, but in total we lost around 20,000 standing places and if you didn’t like it, it was tough luck.

Hence I’m not sure I can afford too much sympathy to any disgruntled fans, should the club propose to create 5,000 rail seats in the lower Hol.
Nice attitude towards your fellow Palace fans.

As you know, the Holmesdale stand was built to hold seats as a consequence of standing becoming illegal. It wasn’t at the request of other Palace fans wishing to force others to sit.

Your demand for 5,000 safe standing in one of the most popular positions in the ground and for this to happen soon is unreasonable. I’d ask where you want the displaced fans to go, but I anticipate you don’t care.

You are also missing the point that whilst those who can stand also have the physical ability to sit, there are a percentage of fans who can’t stand for long periods (for various reasons) and their needs trump yours. I say this because whilst I do appreciate you’d like to stand, this is just a preference...whereas as those who can’t stand for two hours aren’t just expressing a preference. I’ve no wish to see Palace fans with physical/health issues, or simply those who are getting on a bit, forced out of their seats with inadequate plans for alternative seating.

To be clear, I’ve no problem with safe standing being introduced at Selhurst at some point. But it needs to be handled properly and, now the new stand is on the horizon, I agree with others that it would be better to offer blocks of HL fans the chance to move once that’s ready.

If a trial in the current HF blocks is possible in the meanwhile, then I think that might have merit too. But this does depend on the law changing still.
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  #678  
Old 15-06-2018, 08:24 AM
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Nice attitude towards your fellow Palace fans.

As you know, the Holmesdale stand was built to hold seats as a consequence of standing becoming illegal. It wasnít at the request of other Palace fans wishing to force others to sit.

Your demand for 5,000 safe standing in one of the most popular positions in the ground and for this to happen soon is unreasonable. Iíd ask where you want the displaced fans to go, but I anticipate you donít care.

You are also missing the point that whilst those who can stand also have the physical ability to sit, there are a percentage of fans who canít stand for long periods (for various reasons) and their needs trump yours. I say this because whilst I do appreciate youíd like to stand, this is just a preference...whereas as those who canít stand for two hours arenít just expressing a preference. Iíve no wish to see Palace fans with physical/health issues, or simply those who are getting on a bit, forced out of their seats with inadequate plans for alternative seating.
.
Your argument isn't valid on a 'need' vs 'preference' because suitable seating will always remain available and thus you are making it your preference to sit in a certain seat not that you need that seat.

If they made the LH safe standing then there would be plenty of room available for all preferences and needs. Nobody needs to trump anyone, there is a maximum capacity and a much lower amount of season ticket holders.
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  #679  
Old 15-06-2018, 08:54 AM
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I don't assume that, but something has to give, and the LH is the obvious choice for standing. The last thing we need to NIMBY's in our own areas, those who stood on the Holmesdale terrace when they were young, now sitting and kicking up a fuss to deny those youngsters from standing there in the future.
I support removing the roof and all the facilities to give youngsters the real experience of standing on an open terrace.
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  #680  
Old 15-06-2018, 09:49 AM
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You are needed on the National Action terror plot thread
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