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ardeo 27-05-2011 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez
Why, Kolb's got a lower passer rating than McCoy? :p

Someone gives a 1st rounder for Kolb, they'll regret it.

I've decided to do some statting up on 1st round QBs, with position drafted, games played, and TD/INTs.

2010
Sam Bradford - 1st -16 -18/15
Tim Tebow - 25th - 9 - 5/3

2009
Matt Stafford - 1st - 13 - 19/21
Mark Sanchez - 5th - 29/33
Josh Freeman - 17th -26 - 35/24

2008
Matt Ryan - 3rd - 46 - 66/34
Joe Flacco - 18th - 48 - 60/34

2007
Jamarcus Russel - 1st - retired
Brady Quinn - 22nd - 14 - 10/9

2006
Vince Young - 3rd - 54 - 42/42
Matt Leinart - 10th - 29 - 14/20
Jay Cutler - 11th - 68 - 104/79

and for comparison Kolb is: 19 - 11/14

Although Kolb isn't going to put up the same production as Bradford, Ryan and Flacco, he's also going to be able to put up a lot better production than Russell, Leinart and Quinn. I think a late first round pick is reasonably fair for a pretty solid guy who can play at the NFL level. Not sure QB wise that it is worth taking the risk on drafting a QB late in the first when the top potential guys have gone.

pauldrulez 27-05-2011 10:39 PM

Compare him to Cassel though.

16 games as starter in 2008. 21/11.

Pats got a 2nd rounder for him. And threw in Vrabel to keep him out of the AFC East.

But, Cassel had a $15m price on his head for one year, so the Pats had to take the best offer on him. Schefter reported after that the Broncos offered Jay Cutler to the Bucs, Bucs gave the Pats their 1st and Broncos got Cassel.

So, it's possible that he could have been worth a 1st round pick and had decent production in a good system with quite a bit of talent.

From what I can see, Kolb has 1 year, $12.25m on his contract. For that, I don't see there being a huge difference between Kolb and Cassel's situation.

Arizona may bite on Kolb, will they give a first? I'm not sure. Whisenhunt doesn't strike me as that type of Head Coach.

Also, a lot of these teams are looking at the possibility of getting Andrew Luck. Barkley will go high as well as long as he doesn't fall apart. You got Landry Jones who will go high with another consistent season. And there's Kellen Moore out of Boise. And a friend in Arizona keeps going on at me about Nick Foles out of Zona.

I personally think at least 4 of those QBs were better than the ones in this last draft. The only 3 that were close in terms of potential and talent were Newton, Locker and Mallett. And they all had off-field issues that makes you think they won't succeed.

jazman 27-05-2011 11:23 PM

Those stats are pretty damning evidence to confirm one thing. The class of 2007 was shite! :)

Swanny32 27-05-2011 11:28 PM

Lol Jaz

pauldrulez 28-05-2011 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazman
Those stats are pretty damning evidence to confirm one thing. The class of 2007 was shite! :)

:p

Horrible draft.

saxoneagle 28-05-2011 01:01 PM

Based on those stats, and based on who is likely to be available, surely Young would be better placed to be a starting QB than Kolb, other than his mental issues. He has a TD 80% of starts compared to Kolb about 55%, although Young has INT about 80%, too, Kolb is about 75%.

Young also has a healthy W-L record which Kolb doesn't.

I'm not saying VY will be a better long term starting QB, but if you just want to use those stats then I know who I'm taking if available. AND VY will be cheaper than Kolb.

Swanny32 28-05-2011 01:38 PM

I do agree that Young would be better placed to come in and make an immediate impact but he's an idiot and more of a risk than Kolb imo.

Kolb is an accurate passer, he's suited to sitting in the pocket and hitting players in the numbers or giving them a ball to go up and get, because of that I think he suits the Zona receivers more than any of the other teams who are potentially in the Market for a QB.

ardeo 28-05-2011 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoneagle
Based on those stats, and based on who is likely to be available, surely Young would be better placed to be a starting QB than Kolb, other than his mental issues. He has a TD 80% of starts compared to Kolb about 55%, although Young has INT about 80%, too, Kolb is about 75%.

Young also has a healthy W-L record which Kolb doesn't.

I'm not saying VY will be a better long term starting QB, but if you just want to use those stats then I know who I'm taking if available. AND VY will be cheaper than Kolb.

The VY vs Kolb stats are a little misleading, as NFL.com just has games played for career rather than games started. Kolb has only started and completed 6 or 7 games. Also have to take into account mental issues, Young without them is a better prospect than Kolb, however due to that Kolb currently has the far higher value and IMO a lower 1st value, which is why the Browns are a reasonable candidate as they could give up their Falcons 1st rounder.

pauldrulez 28-05-2011 02:22 PM

The Browns have got Colt McCoy.

Who has got a superior record to Kolb and worked hard to work his way from 3rd QB to starter last season.

He isn't going anywhere.

ardeo 28-05-2011 02:38 PM

Except the two games the Browns won he threw less than 20 times, they lost everytime he had to throw more.

Kolb has at least gone out and won games in his career and thrown over 300 yards 3 times in 7 starts.

In fact if you want to compare starting records:

Kolb v McCoy
Starts: 8 v 8
Wins: 3 v 2
TDs: 10 v 6
INTs: 9 v 9
Yards/game: 244.9 v 197.0

So how has McCoy got a superior record?

Kolb's stats also include the half against Packers where he got concussed and then didn't return, as well as the end of season nothingness against the Cowboys.

pauldrulez 28-05-2011 02:43 PM

Kolb throwing to all these weapons with a great D-Line.

McCoy throwing to Jags and having Peyton Hillis.

You can't just include Starters. He's thrown 5 other INT's and 1 other TD as well. 11/14 is the record.

Kolb's career rating is 73.2, McCoy's is around 76.

ardeo 28-05-2011 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez
Kolb throwing to all these weapons with a great D-Line.

McCoy throwing to Jags and having Peyton Hillis.

You can't just include Starters. He's thrown 5 other INT's and 1 other TD as well. 11/14 is the record.

Kolb's career rating is 73.2, McCoy's is around 76.

What have the first two got to do with having a superior record, can also argue that Kolb has more pressure being at a better team in a pass first offence. He's also only ever started 3 consecutive games, compared to McCoy starting 8 in a row, which is surely better for a QB.

Starting stats are more important than coming into a game due to injury or QB1 being pulled means that you are already up against it and will be less effective than as a starter, and seeing as Kolb has plenty of games it is easy to let them sway the stats.

Kolb has still won games with his arm, McCoy hasn't, a marginal QB rating, brought down by one terrible game against the Ravens 3 years ago doesn't equate to that. Last year Kolb had a QB rating of 76.1 and the year before of 88.9, compared to McCoy's of 74.5. When he's started he's been better.

pauldrulez 28-05-2011 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardeo
What have the first two got to do with having a superior record, can also argue that Kolb has more pressure being at a better team in a pass first offence. He's also only ever started 3 consecutive games, compared to McCoy starting 8 in a row, which is surely better for a QB.

Starting stats are more important than coming into a game due to injury or QB1 being pulled means that you are already up against it and will be less effective than as a starter, and seeing as Kolb has plenty of games it is easy to let them sway the stats.

Kolb has still won games with his arm, McCoy hasn't, a marginal QB rating, brought down by one terrible game against the Ravens 3 years ago doesn't equate to that. Last year Kolb had a QB rating of 76.1 and the year before of 88.9, compared to McCoy's of 74.5. When he's started he's been better.

McCoy didn't start 8 in a row AFAIK, he missed at least 1 week, maybe 2 with a knee injury.

ardeo 28-05-2011 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez
McCoy didn't start 8 in a row AFAIK, he missed at least 1 week, maybe 2 with a knee injury.

True, did 5, then missed 3, then back for last 3.

Still better than 2 played, rest of the season QB2, start 1 and get injured, lose your place, back for 3 as QB2, then one more at the end of the season.

pauldrulez 29-05-2011 04:16 PM

Ok, looking to go to America for my 21st with my family.

Doing the Jets game at the Meadowlands followed by the Chiefs game at Gillette. 5 days in NY followed by 5 in Boston.

Anyone got any recommendations for some decent hotels that aren't massively expensive?

saxoneagle 29-05-2011 07:56 PM

Yes - drop me a message to remind me and I'll have a look for you tomorrow night.

pauldrulez 29-05-2011 08:56 PM

Cool, thanks mate.

Found a decent one in Boston (well, Medford), so I have one option.

The location is less of a factor now, as before I was going either by myself or with others who can't drive in the US either, but my Dad will probably hire a car over there.

Beckenham Boy 01-06-2011 08:58 AM

Wembley prices announced, frozen from last year and not taken on the VAT increase which is good. Also announced a new family zone where Adults pay 35 and children U16 pay 17.50

Ticket prices for the 2011 Pepsi Max NFL International Series game are as follows:

* Category 1 100.00
* Category 2 80.00
* Category 3 72.50
* Category 4 70.00
* Category 5 60.00
* Category 6 50.00
* Category 7 (Family Zone) 35.00 Adult / 17.50 Under 16s
* Club Wembley 129.00
* Premium Club 149.00

jazman 01-06-2011 09:23 AM

Family zone is a great idea as my son wants to go see his team this year!

saxoneagle 01-06-2011 09:51 AM

Sorry Paul - got your PM but haven't had a chance to look yet. Day off tomorrow so will look then :p


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