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pauldrulez 27-04-2009 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoneagle
Funnily enough, I trust Bill from Boston rather than Paul from Pottyland. :p

Sh*t draft class, did the right thing trading around and saving some cash. Didn't we pick up 2 extra 2nds for 2010 for a draft class which could be 60 players deep in elite players?

Oh and McCoy > Bradford.

Well, in Bill we trust is coming from some people, but that only takes you so far.

The Patriots had picks 23, 34, 47 and 58 as well as 2 in the 3rd round. We ended up with 12 players and no Ellis Hobbs. We picked a return guy in the 3rd who will be on IR for a year and we thought Slater was high in the 5th. A Jamaican safety who would have been available at 47 in the original picks. We didn't get a pass rush.

So, what do we get? An excellent secondary, but only Butler can start out of those taken in the draft, the other corner and safetys were already here.
A ILB who can compete for reps with Bruschi and Guyton alongside Mayo.
A defensive line (that was fine anyway) now has more depth, the problem. We cant fit 10 linemen in the 53. We take 6 at most. Green or Seymour are gone soon.

And finally, the pass rush from the OLB's. Adalius Thomas is one if he stays injury-free. Then the other side, you will have Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable and Tully Banta-Cain (good god, no) being blocked by the RT of any team. Unless Crable's chickenlegs have gone.

I like that we only need to draft depth, but my questions are how Everette Brown and Rey Maualuga are lower than Patrick Chung. Those 2 and Butler I thought had no chance of being there at 23, no matter 34. Brown-Maualuga-Mayo-Thomas along with the front 3 and the improved D would have been awesome.

But then again, In Bill we Trust I guess. Give it 3 more years like this, and we'll be wondering where Pioli has gone.

saxoneagle 27-04-2009 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez
Well, in Bill we trust is coming from some people, but that only takes you so far.

The Patriots had picks 23, 34, 47 and 58 as well as 2 in the 3rd round. We ended up with 12 players and no Ellis Hobbs. We picked a return guy in the 3rd who will be on IR for a year and we thought Slater was high in the 5th. A Jamaican safety who would have been available at 47 in the original picks. We didn't get a pass rush.

So, what do we get? An excellent secondary, but only Butler can start out of those taken in the draft, the other corner and safetys were already here.
A ILB who can compete for reps with Bruschi and Guyton alongside Mayo.
A defensive line (that was fine anyway) now has more depth, the problem. We cant fit 10 linemen in the 53. We take 6 at most. Green or Seymour are gone soon.

And finally, the pass rush from the OLB's. Adalius Thomas is one if he stays injury-free. Then the other side, you will have Pierre Woods, Shawn Crable and Tully Banta-Cain (good god, no) being blocked by the RT of any team. Unless Crable's chickenlegs have gone.

I like that we only need to draft depth, but my questions are how Everette Brown and Rey Maualuga are lower than Patrick Chung. Those 2 and Butler I thought had no chance of being there at 23, no matter 34. Brown-Maualuga-Mayo-Thomas along with the front 3 and the improved D would have been awesome.

But then again, In Bill we Trust I guess. Give it 3 more years like this, and we'll be wondering where Pioli has gone.


How much have YOU seen of any of the players we drafted? :clown:

jazman 27-04-2009 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Brody
I don't believe he was peeved to be joining a team with great heritage and the ancestral home of the greatest wide receiver of all time.

I don't deny that for one second. I think Latvian mentioned better than I did the fact that he was sitting there for a lot longer than he and most expected. However, it could end up being a blessing in disguise if the 49ers sort themselves out compared to where he could have ended up.

saxoneagle 27-04-2009 05:40 PM

Oh, and Maualuga can't tackle. I rated him highly but you only have to listen to the guy and watch the tapes. He's pig shit and has wafers for arms.

Vince Hilaire's Afro 27-04-2009 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funk Butter
That's how it works, you get all boozed up and yell at every pick. Jets fans have provided some classic moments.

Of course, the Philly fans booed the Donovan McNabb pick because they wanted Ricky Williams.

Yep, of course I realised the booziness of it all etc. but it's a shame that such a special moment for these young players is tainted in such a way. It's a bit like being booed on your wedding day or graduation.

Incidentally, I also felt sorry for the players who had cameras etc. at their houses all day and didn't get drafted!

Latvian Eagle 27-04-2009 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro
Yep, of course I realised the booziness of it all etc. but it's a shame that such a special moment for these young players is tainted in such a way. It's a bit like being booed on your wedding day or graduation.

Incidentally, I also felt sorry for the players who had cameras etc. at their houses all day and didn't get drafted!

Would they send cameras to the houses of players they know probably wouldn't be drafted? :confused:

pauldrulez 27-04-2009 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoneagle
How much have YOU seen of any of the players we drafted? :clown:

Which ones?

Brace and Butler, a lot. I have dvds of the majority of BC and UConn games from last year.

Chung, not much. But 1 interception in 13 games last year if the stat is right. I preferred Sean Smith who I has seen a lot of..

Vollmer. Linemen, Don't know much of him.

McKenzie and Tate. Tate I saw a lot of him and have seen his returnability in highlights. He is one of the 3 picks I really like.

I've seen highlights of as many of the rest of the picks as I can. Love the QB/WR we took, has great highlights on Youtube. My opinion of this is that he will be running the scout team against Miami and will help against the Wildcat whether we use it or not.

I had a feeling we wouldn't take Rey at 23 if he fell because of three things. Two ILBs in a row at the first pick.
Very, very low wonderlic score.
Has had problems in the news over last few weeks

Non-draft news:

The Patriots radio show(pfwinprogress) will have the first ever interview with Adam Schefter since he chose to go to ESPN and will be live on air tomorrow.

pauldrulez 27-04-2009 06:21 PM

I liked watching B.J. Raji get drafted. On the phone and shouting at people in his house to shut up.

saxoneagle 27-04-2009 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez
Which ones?

Brace and Butler, a lot. I have dvds of the majority of BC and UConn games from last year.

Chung, not much. But 1 interception in 13 games last year if the stat is right. I preferred Sean Smith who I has seen a lot of..

Vollmer. Linemen, Don't know much of him.

McKenzie and Tate. Tate I saw a lot of him and have seen his returnability in highlights. He is one of the 3 picks I really like.

I've seen highlights of as many of the rest of the picks as I can. Love the QB/WR we took, has great highlights on Youtube. My opinion of this is that he will be running the scout team against Miami and will help against the Wildcat whether we use it or not.

I had a feeling we wouldn't take Rey at 23 if he fell because of three things. Two ILBs in a row at the first pick.
Very, very low wonderlic score.
Has had problems in the news over last few weeks

Non-draft news:

The Patriots radio show(pfwinprogress) will have the first ever interview with Adam Schefter since he chose to go to ESPN and will be live on air tomorrow.

The point I am making Paul is that I watch 4 or 5 college games a WEEK during the season. You claim to have a load on DVD and whatever. It doesn't make us scouts. It doesn't even make us close to being, full-time, paid, professional scouts.

What skills would you look for in an OLB? How would he be technically different from an ILB? What would you expect his vertical to be? What 40 time would you expect from a DE? Is an interceptions stat the main thing you look at when choosing a CB?

Paul, you strike me as being an ideal scout for Oakland.

pauldrulez 27-04-2009 08:24 PM

I go by what I see and what I read on the various sites as well as what I hear from people that I know watch these teams week-in week-out and go to the Combine, Senior Bowl practices etc.

I'm not claiming to know more than these people. They may have a great future. Every one may be an all-pro for all I know.

But if we cant give opinions on people now, whats the point.

Lets review the 2006 draft. 3 years on, we can tell who is a bust or not.
1st round - Laurence Maroney. Bust.
2nd round - Chad Jackson. Bust.
3rd round - David Thomas. Cut this summer. Done nothing, bust.
4th round - Garrett Mills. Who?
Stephen Gostkowski - We have a winner.
5th round - Ryan O'Callaghan. Attitude concerns, 3 OL drafted in 09. He's gone
6th round - Only one of 3 is still around in any capacity. LeKevin Smith. I like him, but he will struggle to stay around this year.
7th - Willie Andrews - Decent returner. Arrested and cut.

So, Gostkowski, Smith and Maroney are around now. One, possibly Two will still be here in 09.

There was no point be going through that, but you cant review prospects straight after the draft, so will go 3 years back so we know what Belichick did.

Vince Hilaire's Afro 27-04-2009 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle
Would they send cameras to the houses of players they know probably wouldn't be drafted? :confused:

The two players that spring to my mind is the guy named Cosby who was stuck all day with Bill Cosby who has 'adopted' his college team, and some bald QB whose name began with H. Both may have been drafted at the end, I didn't see it all the way through.

saxoneagle 27-04-2009 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez
I go by what I see and what I read on the various sites as well as what I hear from people that I know watch these teams week-in week-out and go to the Combine, Senior Bowl practices etc.

I'm not claiming to know more than these people. They may have a great future. Every one may be an all-pro for all I know.

But if we cant give opinions on people now, whats the point.

Lets review the 2006 draft. 3 years on, we can tell who is a bust or not.
1st round - Laurence Maroney. Bust.
2nd round - Chad Jackson. Bust.
3rd round - David Thomas. Cut this summer. Done nothing, bust.
4th round - Garrett Mills. Who?
Stephen Gostkowski - We have a winner.
5th round - Ryan O'Callaghan. Attitude concerns, 3 OL drafted in 09. He's gone
6th round - Only one of 3 is still around in any capacity. LeKevin Smith. I like him, but he will struggle to stay around this year.
7th - Willie Andrews - Decent returner. Arrested and cut.

So, Gostkowski, Smith and Maroney are around now. One, possibly Two will still be here in 09.

There was no point be going through that, but you cant review prospects straight after the draft, so will go 3 years back so we know what Belichick did.

Do that exercise with all teams. A lot of teams only end up keeping a coupld of players from a draft class 3 or 4 years on.

FWIW - Maroney is not a bust. He's not a 1st rounder and he's not a first choice back but in a pass-heavy offense he was never going to be a 1,000 yard rusher. He's a reasonable second choice or "committee" (I hate that term) RB.

saxoneagle 27-04-2009 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro
The two players that spring to my mind is the guy named Cosby who was stuck all day with Bill Cosby who has 'adopted' his college team, and some bald QB whose name began with H. Both may have been drafted at the end, I didn't see it all the way through.

Quan Cosby. Haven't seen where or if he went. I have a life so didn't sit in front of the TV for 8 hours on Sunday ;)

saxoneagle 27-04-2009 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoneagle
Quan Cosby. Haven't seen where or if he went. I have a life so didn't sit in front of the TV for 8 hours on Sunday ;)

Just looked - he was undrafted which doesn't surprise me. Having watched almost all of UT's games last season he's too small. Good hands though and might get picked up as a return specialist.

pauldrulez 27-04-2009 09:00 PM

I wrote a long reply to your original one and then deleted the page. Oops.

I went on about the committee and how Maroney could be cut if he gets one more injury as thats his main problem.

My main point earlier was not the 06 draft, just that we can have opinions on players now. Then, if you are wrong, you are wrong. If Vollmer turns into Orlando Pace i'll be completely wrong but delighted. There is no point in Kiper, McShay, Mayock and Charles Davis if you can't comment on things like this. It's what makes you a fan (or a dick)

And it wasn't 8 in front of the TV.

It was 5 in front of the laptop on Sat.
And 3 more on Sun (would have been longer but broke my hand and had to go and see someone)

elliott 27-04-2009 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez

My main point earlier was not the 06 draft, just that we can have opinions on players now. Then, if you are wrong, you are wrong. If Vollmer turns into Orlando Pace i'll be completely wrong but delighted. There is no point in Kiper, McShay, Mayock and Charles Davis if you can't comment on things like this. It's what makes you a fan (or a dick)

I think its wrong to critique a team so heavily based on the draft. I was having a chat with a Jets fan who was jumping around about the Sanchez pick. I just smiled. I don't know much about him, but I know I would've waited for next year's talent rich draft to get a QB.

Draft analysis (of how well a team has drafted) is almost all toss was my conclusion. Only now can you fully appreciate how well Miami drafted in 2005, compared with how poorly in 2004 for example

I watch about 4 college football games a week (often not the big teams too) and I have played the game for 4 years. I'm being groomed to be a future OC, but I really do not feel qualified to speak at all about the players. The only person who I feel strongly about is Matt Stafford, and I would back myself all the way on that one.


There's also a reason Kiper/Mayock etc are on telly. Its because they aren't in the FOs on draft day. Essentially, there are 32 groups of people better qualified to analyse the draft than them.

pauldrulez 27-04-2009 09:25 PM

Fair enough, at least you've explained yourself properly.

I am guessing as obviously these players may not grasp the NFL at all.

Someone made a great point about Mayock though. He mentions his mock draft and then says someone else would be a great pick here. Thanks mate ;)

The 5 mins before and after the Sanchez pick were great.

Jets fans cheering, Sanchez wearing the hat. The announcement of the trade details. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D

pauldrulez 27-04-2009 09:29 PM

The point i've tried to make the whole time is:

These are my opinions, I could be completely wrong. Or I could be right on some of them.

This isn't something where I pat myself of the back with every pick I get right in a few years. It's just my opinion that I didn't like the draft, the more footage I see of Chung, the more I like it. It could be because of Belichick being the guy that you don't slag off as he is the expert.

It was because I loved Everette Brown and thought we should be up at 10 to get him ahead of the Bills (who should have taken Orakpo), but he dropped all the way down and we picked 3 more times and didn't take him. I and some scouts may be completely wrong who had him top 15 quality, but the teams that passed on him may know something we don't. I think he's a great player, but that's why i'm not Pioli, Johnson, Belichick or Parcells.

It's just an opinion :)

Vince Hilaire's Afro 27-04-2009 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoneagle
Quan Cosby. Haven't seen where or if he went. I have a life so didn't sit in front of the TV for 8 hours on Sunday ;)

Wasn't in front of the TV all day - had it on in the background while I looked after my 8 month old boy - can't have a better life than that ;)

elliott 27-04-2009 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauldrulez

These are my opinions, I could be completely wrong. Or I could be right on some of them.

But isn't that essentially like tossing a coin? And anyone can get as good odds as tossing a coin!

Myself, I agree with saxon. Bill has been very clever here. He knows he has few real needs and so has saved for next year when he can use his picks in a very talent rich draft.

Can't fault that IMO


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