While swerving the negatives

How does Richardson get that wicket?

the point is, that today, we've shown a bit of fight. Something that we've not shown so far.
It's just a real shame Root couldn't have held on for a handful more balls.

Half way through day 2 I wasn't expecting to be seeing play at 9:30 on the final morning.

Plenty of negatives that will rightfully get focussed on, but gives me a bit of hope that we may give ourselves a small chance in the Melbourne test.

It's much easier to play with a dead bat than to bat in normal circumstances. Buttler just cannot bat against a red ball

Bloke batted for 5 hours and faced over 200 balls, including facing a new ball.

he clearly deserves some credit for giving us even a small glimmer of hope.

Another pathetic display from England.

Given the series is over, makes sense to make some wholesale changes and give the other tourists a chance.

275 run loss. Didn’t make it to 200 in the second innings.

But it’s ok because a couple of players ‘dug in’ for an hour or two.

Shambolic and embarrassing.

Changes needed.

I guess Player of the match will have to go to Lagershandy. No one else really stood out.

They should just start with that mindset then.

Matt Prior and Cook speaking a lot of sense on BT Sport now.

Too many bad choices off the pitch. Talked about all the planning we supposedly did, yet can't see where any of that happened.
Not good enough in the field. Dropped catches costing us as much as anything else.
Not building anywhere near enough partnerships.

Not saying it is OK. It clearly is a miliion miles from OK. Test match batting is multi-dimensional and Buttler has shown he can 'dig in' once in a blue moon. Does it make him worth his place? I think not. He has failed as a batsman and a 'keeper over and again. We have an option. New blood desperately needed - all over. And a captain to take the weight off Root.

Fletcher (D), Flower and Bayliss are the only coaches to really get a tune out of the England Test side in recent years. Time for some outside influence and ideas to sharpen up flabby English minds again.

Warner wants to get into coaching when he retires............................

Moxon?

Bring it on! I can see it now, born on the wrong side of tracks in Sydney, fought his way up - uses that to turn England into a street-fighting bunch of cut-throats. I'm e-mailing the ECB now.

Yes agreed mate.

Foakes has to come in for starters. WK simply cannot afford to drop simple catches

:D

I wouldn't mind.

As long as he gets the right instruction, I am sure he could drive the England team bus from hotel to ground and back every day.

This from Agnew I don’t agree with.

“Jos Buttler has redeemed himself with how he batted there. He dropped a couple of straightfoward chances but that is unlike him - he's actually got a good record behind the stumps. He's taken a few brilliant catches too.

That was not a one-day innings today. That was a tremendous effort. It showed to me someone who is very determined to succeed in Test cricket.”

The bloke dropped 3 catches and got a duck in the first innings when it really mattered. Yeah it’s a good effort to bat 5 hours and give us a small glimmer of hope but he certainly hasn’t redeemed himself. He shouldn’t be anywhere near the test side. He’s one of the best white ball batsmen in the world but he is not a test cricketer.

Burns out Crawley in
Pope out Lawrence in
Buttler out Bairstow in

It should be Foakes instead of Bairstow but he’s stupidly not out there. We might as well makes changes, certainly can’t get any worse.

Root in his interview said Mark Wood would have offered us something different. Bloody pick him then!!! Personally I would leave out Broad and bring Wood back in. You can’t drop Woakes as he is one of our better batsman.

Unfortunately, he’s not even in the country let alone the squad. I can see them bringing in Bairstow for Pope, either as just a batsman or batsman/WK.

I think it would be ridiculous - I don’t think he’d be that much better than Pope with the bat & he’s clearly not a proper WK - but I can see the ECB doing it just because we’ve been awful & ‘something needs to change’.

Too many bit-parts in the England dressing room, not enough players who do a single job really well. Again I would suggest that is, in part at least, due to the fixation with white ball cricket where the onus is on most players to be multi-functional.

Yes I was meaning longer term with Foakes. It’s pretty scandalous that he’s not been a regular

TBF to Root, he said it was in hindsight, and that the ball didn't do anywhere near as much as expected, and the stats back that up.
He also said that we didn't bowl full enough in the first innings. So it doesn't matter who was bowling if we're not getting it right.

I think Butler will get it right. Agnew has a point, that behind the stumps Butler has generally had a very good record behind the stumps. Just so ridiculous that he took 3 stunners and then drops the 2 simple ones.
If nothing else with the bat, he has hopefully shown the rest of the team how they have to bat for the first 50 balls they face, for the rest of the series.

I think Pope for Lawrence and Woakes for Wood will be it for now.

Dropping players and bringing in two or three new faces won't change things, the problem is at the top, get rid of Silverwood and things will improve.

Woakes is arguably one of our most inform batsmen at the moment.

My issue with this is that we shouldn't be going 'all in' on possible eventualities. A good test match size has balance and can adapt well to different circumstances that arise across 5 days. 5 seamers that all bowl in a similar style will easily get undone when things don't go to plan. That doesn't need hindsight to work out either...

Two years of planning now turns into things we could have done differently with hindsight

I don't disagree. And I said from the start.

But at the same time, you can't claim that teams don't pick sides based on the pitch and the conditions.
I think it was criminal that Woakes was put in ahead of Woods, FWIW.

:p

Yes but going forward there are lots of positives that we can take from this defeat... :p

In four Test match innings Burns has scored a total of 51 runs, Hameed 58 and Pope 48

It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a Test match quality batsman to score more than that in a single innings

None of them are up to it and I have no expectation that any replacements will be considerably better

There’s an argument that with an English coach the side is too much ‘public school pussy’ from top to bottom. No grit, no bollocks. Which is why the England team looks and is so much better when we’ve a foreigner leading the team, preferably with a smattering of three or four South African arseholes throughout the side.

And this is exactly the problem. Not a dig at you at all but to suggest a bowler should be picked because of his batting when, statistically, his bowling has been worse than that of Anderson, Broad, Wood & Robinson is everything that's wrong with this team.

Don’t want to pile in on GB but Woakes can’t take a wicket in Oz when they are giving them away for free at the wicket factory.

If he’s guaranteed 30-40 with a chance of a big one, play him at 6 use him as a part-time bowler. Wonder where that option sits among the gigabytes of plans on Silverwood’s MacBook.

Oh agree he’s been the poorest bowler but our tail is woeful as it is. Drop Woakes and we quite literally only ‘bat’ and I use that word very loosely 1-7.

Crawley shoudl come in. I'd drop Burns and Pope, bring in Crawley and Bairstow.

I'm not convinced at all by Hameed but we just don't have enough ready replacements out there

I'm surprised we didn't try it in the summer when we didn't have Stokes when we making sure we were so well prepared...

My comment was aimed at Root's comments rather than your good self. Picking a team for the pitch and conditions is sensible, but not at the expense of any flexibility. Wood offers something different and is arguably our best bowler in Australian conditions, he may well not have 5 tests in him of course, but that is another story.

Anyway, we are agreeing here i think

Well if they should have picked Broad at the Gabba instead of Leach and then had Woakes and Wood for the last test.

My understanding was the plan was always to alternate the two which seemed entirely sensible to me, not sure why they changed that plan.

We could easily drop Pope bring in Bairstow to keep and retain Butler as a batsman.

Playing a slightly better bowling attack in Adelaide would only have meant we had longer to survive in the 4th innings.

We revolve, but we don't evolve. If a bowler doesn't have the prospect of bowling say, 20 overs an innings over all 5 games then they don't get on the plane in the first place. Time to toughen up again.

Silverwood and his band of idiots were so well prepared that we’re now calling up Mahmood who’s currently playing t20. The mind boggles.

In my opinion both he and Parkinson should have been in the original squad. There have already been so many bad decisions made regarding this tour, and there are still three Tests to play. Biggest mistake was deciding to go ahead with the tour in the first place.

It is like ECB are building a ship whilst on sea

:D

I been living in denial….

Or we'd have had less runs to chase.

Though I don't think we bowled too badly, and certainly restricted runs, Anderson, Broad and Woakes are all good enough to have been more threatening than they were.

Facing Australia on their own patch has always been a slippery task for us, but with this current group it's near mission impossible. For the remainder of this series it needs to be damage limitation and with a rebuilding task in the summer as the priority, but with who? as there aint much alternatives to pick from and how oftem have we said that.
We need a pair of Opening Batsmen of International class able to compete at this level, but where/who are they, lets not forget the Middle Order batting, as when you take away the outstanding Root it's a struggle for runs with any consistency. Then we need a Test class Spinner, but again Who? we then face the nightmare of replacing Anderson and Broad who have taken close to 1200 Test wickets between them, currently all we have coming through is no better than average pace bowlers. Oh I forgot the Selectors/Management i.e Silverwood, who really need looking at as it aint working.
So in a nutshell it' back to the drawing board.

I'd have given Liam Livingstone a spot. He certainly has the right attitude and arrogance and can bat and bowl some decent spin

Sometimes getting what you need is a matter of picking someone with potential and then giving them an extended chance.
Lyon wasn't a good spinner at the start of his career, but he was good enough to be given a chance and encouraged to learn and get better.
Smith we did the same to. Used his dodgy legspin as a reason to pick him at 6 or 7, and let him grow. Many people didn't think his technique would get him anywhere. Look at him know.
Its time for a changing of the guard, but don't drop one young player for another young player.
And FFS stop wearing your most talented players into the ground, by keeping them on expecting miracles.

Botham, Flintoff, Stokes, we always need a hero for Ashes :)

That's all very well Jim, but where's all this poxy rain you've been promising us? :sunglasses:

Yet another lie the Australians…..who would have thought :)

(Sarcasm alert, just in case the Aussies don’t it)

I'll let that one go through to Buttlerfingers.:D

Don't know where you guys go from here. I would think the future is far more important than the present in your current situation. You guys wont want to be beat 5-0, thats a given. I'd look to play some of your more inexperienced players and perhaps relieve some tried and tested ones of their duties for now.
You risk getting beaten 5-0 whether you play the younger ones or not. The only issue will be how much damage will it take to scar some of these guys. I'd take the approach that if the younger more inexperienced players get scarred then they probably wont be much use anyway for the long haul. It might be time to find out how bigger job you have in front of you now rather than later.
On the other hand you have a situation where dropped catches and the odd no ball have haunted you. Turn them into wickets and then the question is how close are you to winning these games. Are you in the hunt? Or are you in it up to your eyeballs? Your batting is the main problem obviously, but sometimes you can only go with what you've got. If you hold the catches and reduce the no balls, then it may take some serious pressure off the weakest part of your team, the batting. More questions than answers at the moment, which is never a good sign tbh.

Hehe

Well, we been soundly beaten by a better team, I think credit is where credit is due.

I do think if we do 3-0:down we might, I say might see a change in team and maybe Anderson rested etc. but you are right, a change in team personnel, tactics is desperately needed

The truth is that Australia are a much better side than England.

They have a top class bowling attack, and as this Test showed, decent back up, 3 very good, tough batters in Warner, Labushane and Smith and that's the nucleus of the team.

Whereas England have............Root (and he still hasn't scored a ton in Oz). OK, Malan looks decent and Robinson's a good honest Angus Fraser type bowler but who else ?

Anderson and Broad have been greats but they're approaching the end now, I like Woakes but he can't get wickets abroad, Wood and Archer very quick but also very injury prone and no spinners. Batting is hopeless and has been all year, totally relying on Root - Everyone has been piling into Burns on here, but he is still 2nd highest run scorer after Root in 2021, so that shows how bad the batting is.

And they don't want to pick possibly the best gloveman in World Cricket, presumably because they don't rate his batting, as if it's any worse than Buttler's ?

TBF the preparation, because of Covid and the weather before the Tests, made it even harder for England and it worth pointing out that Head (who looked useless in England in 2019) did play and score runs in Sheffield Shield cricket, which got him into the Test team.

But even with proper warm up matches, we still would have been thrashed IMO.

They're just way better than us, especially in their own conditions.

Should be coming any day now! :p

Cheers Jim, nice one :)

Lol

I'm sure once the third test has been lost we'll see an uptick in the English performances, especially the batting.

Once the pressure is off. Seen it happen before.

TBH the Aussie's are not just technically better but mentally stronger than our lot.

Yes Bumble!

Hard to disagree with much in this Aussie-perspective article…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59741381

Ha! I just saw that. This article says that Gower, Botham & Holding have all recently left Sky. Have they ‘retired’ or gone somewhere else? I’ve never had Sky so am completely clueless.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59741382

Gower and Botham left Sky after the 2019 Ashes. Botham is working for an Australian broadcaster during the current Ashes series. Gower is supposedly going to be on BT during the next test and has done some work in Pakistan. I heard Holding retired a few months ago but I don't think it has been confirmed yet.

Did you read Pontings blast?

It was aimed at Roots blaming of the bowlers for bowling too short.

As a captain, he said if he thought his bowlers were bowling too short, he would tell them to pitch it up more, its up to the captain to manage his bowlers and make these on field decisions.

He also mentioned that when Root left the field to get a groin strain treated and Stokes took over, the bowlers started pitching it up more.
I don't have coverage here in Prague, did anyone watching at the time notice this?

Come to think of it, they did pitch it up when Root was off.

Yes Mikey retired a few months ago.

Do we think Archer will ever play for England again? Apparently he's now out until at least the Summer.

Yeah, I saw that. Impossible to know if the bowlers were or were not bowling to a/the plan. Either way, either Root or the bowlers are not covered in glory.

Actually, one could argue that it reflects badly on Root regardless - either the plan was dumb or he couldn't control his bowlers, two of which are massively experienced (both in the top 6 for most Test wickets taken).

I've no doubt that Punter is enjoying stirring the English pot but all it does is highlight the absolute rag-tag shambles that is the English touring party - & they've only played 2/5 Tests so far....

Punter’s only stirring in the sense he’s made the comments publically. You know England are in a mess when the Aussie media are damning you with the truth and not just Pigeon’s drunken rants.

The Conner Wickham of the ECB,

I reckon next summer or sometime thereafter

Life will be a lot easier for him just to pick up the dosh for 24 balls in T20 franchises, that's for sure.

Silverwood has said he would pick the same two teams again.

Idiot. We're f*cked. Get rid asap.

Beggars belief

You would have thought that this bizarre statement would be enough to present him with his P45

He will be on the ODI and T20 merry-go-round only before long.

Speaking of the devil.....

Labuschagne has now replaced Joe Root as No.1 in the Test rankings. I suppose congratulaions are in order. If only we could unearth a No.3 like him.

Poor South Africa, another one they lost out on :D

But at least they got Keppler Wessels back :p

The rumoured four changes for Melbourne would suggest they've fvcked up.

He's basically saying 'I'd fvck it up again me'.

Isn't that the definition of madness? Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome?

Like Rory Burns as an opener?

Or Pope coming down the pitch to Lyon, surviving on review, and then.....coming down the pitch to Lyon.

He probably is the best batsmen in the world but he’s played 2 tests in 10 months!!

Kinell. What’s the point of him then?

Even Rory Burns has scored more runs than him this year….

Errrrrrr........................

Can I get back to you on that?

I wonder if they’ve analysed data on how much each individual player would be affected if Silverwood admitted selections were wrong

Sorry, I know it's bad form to quote yourself, but I have slept on this and I am still no closer to an answer.

The nearest I can get is to compare him to last year's mince pies....

I am hearing Burns is dropped for Melbourne test… I think they need to drop the other 10 too

We have seen Burns and the word dropped in the same sentence far too often in this Ashes series

For who though?

Rumours are pointing towards Crawley.

Lol

Butterfingers is not far behind when it comes to droppings

Root has given a speech apparently there is nothing to loose.

Bairstow in for Pope, Wood in for Woakes and toss between Leach or Broad. I would have thought that would be a no brainier/

But Bairstow has had a bad test run recently so not sure about that/

Part of me wants us to fight and win or draw this test but apathy is creeping in

Me mum

:)