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Worksop Palace 20-12-2021 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympian2 (Post 16160825)
Unfortunately, he’s not even in the country let alone the squad. I can see them bringing in Bairstow for Pope, either as just a batsman or batsman/WK.

I think it would be ridiculous - I don’t think he’d be that much better than Pope with the bat & he’s clearly not a proper WK - but I can see the ECB doing it just because we’ve been awful & ‘something needs to change’.

Too many bit-parts in the England dressing room, not enough players who do a single job really well. Again I would suggest that is, in part at least, due to the fixation with white ball cricket where the onus is on most players to be multi-functional.

Yes I was meaning longer term with Foakes. It’s pretty scandalous that he’s not been a regular

Tomo 20-12-2021 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB2506 (Post 16160823)
This from Agnew I don’t agree with.

“Jos Buttler has redeemed himself with how he batted there. He dropped a couple of straightfoward chances but that is unlike him - he's actually got a good record behind the stumps. He's taken a few brilliant catches too.

That was not a one-day innings today. That was a tremendous effort. It showed to me someone who is very determined to succeed in Test cricket.”

The bloke dropped 3 catches and got a duck in the first innings when it really mattered. Yeah it’s a good effort to bat 5 hours and give us a small glimmer of hope but he certainly hasn’t redeemed himself. He shouldn’t be anywhere near the test side. He’s one of the best white ball batsmen in the world but he is not a test cricketer.

Burns out Crawley in
Pope out Lawrence in
Buttler out Bairstow in

It should be Foakes instead of Bairstow but he’s stupidly not out there. We might as well makes changes, certainly can’t get any worse.

Root in his interview said Mark Wood would have offered us something different. Bloody pick him then!!! Personally I would leave out Broad and bring Wood back in. You can’t drop Woakes as he is one of our better batsman.

TBF to Root, he said it was in hindsight, and that the ball didn't do anywhere near as much as expected, and the stats back that up.
He also said that we didn't bowl full enough in the first innings. So it doesn't matter who was bowling if we're not getting it right.

I think Butler will get it right. Agnew has a point, that behind the stumps Butler has generally had a very good record behind the stumps. Just so ridiculous that he took 3 stunners and then drops the 2 simple ones.
If nothing else with the bat, he has hopefully shown the rest of the team how they have to bat for the first 50 balls they face, for the rest of the series.

I think Pope for Lawrence and Woakes for Wood will be it for now.

westsussexcpfc 20-12-2021 10:25 AM

Dropping players and bringing in two or three new faces won't change things, the problem is at the top, get rid of Silverwood and things will improve.

GB2506 20-12-2021 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomo (Post 16160839)
TBF to Root, he said it was in hindsight, and that the ball didn't do anywhere near as much as expected, and the stats back that up.
He also said that we didn't bowl full enough in the first innings. So it doesn't matter who was bowling if we're not getting it right.

I think Butler will get it right. Agnew has a point, that behind the stumps Butler has generally had a very good record behind the stumps. Just so ridiculous that he took 3 stunners and then drops the 2 simple ones.
If nothing else with the bat, he has hopefully shown the rest of the team how they have to bat for the first 50 balls they face, for the rest of the series.

I think Pope for Lawrence and Woakes for Wood will be it for now.

Woakes is arguably one of our most inform batsmen at the moment.

Palace Kebab 20-12-2021 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomo (Post 16160839)
TBF to Root, he said it was in hindsight, and that the ball didn't do anywhere near as much as expected, and the stats back that up.

My issue with this is that we shouldn't be going 'all in' on possible eventualities. A good test match size has balance and can adapt well to different circumstances that arise across 5 days. 5 seamers that all bowl in a similar style will easily get undone when things don't go to plan. That doesn't need hindsight to work out either...

art malice 20-12-2021 10:42 AM

Two years of planning now turns into things we could have done differently with hindsight

Tomo 20-12-2021 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palace Kebab (Post 16160862)
My issue with this is that we shouldn't be going 'all in' on possible eventualities. A good test match size has balance and can adapt well to different circumstances that arise across 5 days. 5 seamers that all bowl in a similar style will easily get undone when things don't go to plan. That doesn't need hindsight to work out either...

I don't disagree. And I said from the start.

But at the same time, you can't claim that teams don't pick sides based on the pitch and the conditions.
I think it was criminal that Woakes was put in ahead of Woods, FWIW.

Olympian2 20-12-2021 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worksop Palace (Post 16160828)
Yes I was meaning longer term with Foakes. It’s pretty scandalous that he’s not been a regular

:p

Olympian2 20-12-2021 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by art malice (Post 16160865)
Two years of planning now turns into things we could have done differently with hindsight

Yes but going forward there are lots of positives that we can take from this defeat... :p

desperado 20-12-2021 10:51 AM

In four Test match innings Burns has scored a total of 51 runs, Hameed 58 and Pope 48

It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a Test match quality batsman to score more than that in a single innings

None of them are up to it and I have no expectation that any replacements will be considerably better

0.bj 20-12-2021 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Phillip (Post 16160807)
Fletcher (D), Flower and Bayliss are the only coaches to really get a tune out of the England Test side in recent years. Time for some outside influence and ideas to sharpen up flabby English minds again.

There’s an argument that with an English coach the side is too much ‘public school pussy’ from top to bottom. No grit, no bollocks. Which is why the England team looks and is so much better when we’ve a foreigner leading the team, preferably with a smattering of three or four South African arseholes throughout the side.

Olympian2 20-12-2021 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB2506 (Post 16160847)
Woakes is arguably one of our most inform batsmen at the moment.

And this is exactly the problem. Not a dig at you at all but to suggest a bowler should be picked because of his batting when, statistically, his bowling has been worse than that of Anderson, Broad, Wood & Robinson is everything that's wrong with this team.

0.bj 20-12-2021 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympian2 (Post 16160882)
And this is exactly the problem. Not a dig at you at all but to suggest a bowler should be picked because of his batting when, statistically, his bowling has been worse than that of Anderson, Broad, Wood & Robinson is everything that's wrong with this team.

Don’t want to pile in on GB but Woakes can’t take a wicket in Oz when they are giving them away for free at the wicket factory.

If he’s guaranteed 30-40 with a chance of a big one, play him at 6 use him as a part-time bowler. Wonder where that option sits among the gigabytes of plans on Silverwood’s MacBook.

GB2506 20-12-2021 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympian2 (Post 16160882)
And this is exactly the problem. Not a dig at you at all but to suggest a bowler should be picked because of his batting when, statistically, his bowling has been worse than that of Anderson, Broad, Wood & Robinson is everything that's wrong with this team.

Oh agree he’s been the poorest bowler but our tail is woeful as it is. Drop Woakes and we quite literally only ‘bat’ and I use that word very loosely 1-7.

Jordan's Jacket 20-12-2021 11:14 AM

Crawley shoudl come in. I'd drop Burns and Pope, bring in Crawley and Bairstow.

I'm not convinced at all by Hameed but we just don't have enough ready replacements out there

Tomo 20-12-2021 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0.bj (Post 16160883)
Don’t want to pile in on GB but Woakes can’t take a wicket in Oz when they are giving them away for free at the wicket factory.

If he’s guaranteed 30-40 with a chance of a big one, play him at 6 use him as a part-time bowler. Wonder where that option sits among the gigabytes of plans on Silverwood’s MacBook.

I'm surprised we didn't try it in the summer when we didn't have Stokes when we making sure we were so well prepared...

Palace Kebab 20-12-2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomo (Post 16160867)
I don't disagree. And I said from the start.

But at the same time, you can't claim that teams don't pick sides based on the pitch and the conditions.
I think it was criminal that Woakes was put in ahead of Woods, FWIW.

My comment was aimed at Root's comments rather than your good self. Picking a team for the pitch and conditions is sensible, but not at the expense of any flexibility. Wood offers something different and is arguably our best bowler in Australian conditions, he may well not have 5 tests in him of course, but that is another story.

Anyway, we are agreeing here i think

adrenalin john 20-12-2021 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomo (Post 16160867)
I don't disagree. And I said from the start.

But at the same time, you can't claim that teams don't pick sides based on the pitch and the conditions.
I think it was criminal that Woakes was put in ahead of Woods, FWIW.

Well if they should have picked Broad at the Gabba instead of Leach and then had Woakes and Wood for the last test.

My understanding was the plan was always to alternate the two which seemed entirely sensible to me, not sure why they changed that plan.

adrenalin john 20-12-2021 12:56 PM

We could easily drop Pope bring in Bairstow to keep and retain Butler as a batsman.

Jules 20-12-2021 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrenalin john (Post 16160995)
Well if they should have picked Broad at the Gabba instead of Leach and then had Woakes and Wood for the last test.

My understanding was the plan was always to alternate the two which seemed entirely sensible to me, not sure why they changed that plan.


Playing a slightly better bowling attack in Adelaide would only have meant we had longer to survive in the 4th innings.


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