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Benzhiyi 24-04-2008 06:31 PM

Allen's not a liability. He's a tremendous football player. Sure, there may be some personal issues there but the same is true for about 10-20% of the league. He'll be a tremendous asset to the Vikes.

As for Gholston as a direct replacement, I can't see it. Allen is 6/6, 270, an out and out end. Gholston is a couple of inches shorter and a few pounds lighter, and projects more as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme than an end in a 4-3 (which KC use). Taking a player who projects as a linebacker that high is a massive risk, especially when they have other problem positions (QB, HB, OT) where talent (Ryan, McFadden, Mendenhall, Clady) will likely be available. Not saying they won't roll the dice and go with Gholston if he's available, but it's far from probable.

elliott 24-04-2008 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Benzhiyi
Harsh, very harsh. He surrendered two sacks and two penalties (one false start, one holding) the entire season. The line may have been penalty prone, but not King Samson.
Okay. If you say so. I just always remember him getting penalties.

Benzhiyi 24-04-2008 07:02 PM

TBH you may be correct - it's an oft-repeated fact on Finheaven but I've never gone over the tape to verify it. :D

Strathclyde Eagle 24-04-2008 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Benzhiyi
As for Gholston as a direct replacement, I can't see it. Allen is 6/6, 270, an out and out end. Gholston is a couple of inches shorter and a few pounds lighter, and projects more as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme than an end in a 4-3 (which KC use). Taking a player who projects as a linebacker that high is a massive risk, especially when they have other problem positions (QB, HB, OT) where talent (Ryan, McFadden, Mendenhall, Clady) will likely be available. Not saying they won't roll the dice and go with Gholston if he's available, but it's far from probable.
Agree again. Paul, your man-crush on Gholston's getting a bit tedious. Besides anything else, the Pats usually opt for experience at LB. I think they go for a CB first and foremost.

I think Clady will be the Chiefs' choice myself.

Saw that Mel Kiper Jr doesn't think Ryan should drop below Baltimore at 8, and said that if he does he's quitting the business. :eek:

elliott 24-04-2008 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Benzhiyi
TBH you may be correct - it's an oft-repeated fact on Finheaven but I've never gone over the tape to verify it. :D
Finheaven is a bit pants remember.

Although I have little reason to question it, I don't pay that much attention.

pauldrulez 24-04-2008 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Benzhiyi
Allen's not a liability. He's a tremendous football player. Sure, there may be some personal issues there but the same is true for about 10-20% of the league. He'll be a tremendous asset to the Vikes.

As for Gholston as a direct replacement, I can't see it. Allen is 6/6, 270, an out and out end. Gholston is a couple of inches shorter and a few pounds lighter, and projects more as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme than an end in a 4-3 (which KC use). Taking a player who projects as a linebacker that high is a massive risk, especially when they have other problem positions (QB, HB, OT) where talent (Ryan, McFadden, Mendenhall, Clady) will likely be available. Not saying they won't roll the dice and go with Gholston if he's available, but it's far from probable.

I am only saying what I have seen on other websites. They are most peoples opinions about Gholston. They think that he is one of the best players in this draft as do I. Clady wont go before Gholston and neither will Mendenhall. Ryan may go at 5 but McFadden will probably go to Oakland and if he doesnt then Gholston will IMO.

Strathclyde,

If you look at any Patriots website as I do, then they are all saying the only way a CB is taken is if the Patriots trade down. Heck, even the Patriots own website is saying that in its blogs. The Boston Herald says it as well. It will be Gholston or a trade. McKelvin will go T10 but Jenkins, Rodgers-Cromartie, Talib will be around the Top 20. The Patriots are high on Antoine Cason and there are rumours on the PFW that the Patriots will trade for one or both of Dallas's 1st-rounders. This would be a good deal for the Patriots but probably not so for Dallas. But according to the Draft points chart, both of Dallas's picks would add up to a Number 8 or 9 draft pick (I think). The Saints have said they would trade up if they can. They may offer a 3rd or 4th round pick to the Pats to move up to 7 from 10. If the value chart is correct that is.

Yes you are right, I want to marry Vernon Gholston. In fact I might even put him in my avatar.

saxoneagle 24-04-2008 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strathclyde Eagle
Paul, your man-crush on Gholston
:D :lux: :lux: :D

pauldrulez 24-04-2008 08:26 PM

Can anyone find me an avatar for him since the BBS wont let me upload my own no matter how small I make it.

Benzhiyi 24-04-2008 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pauldrulez
I am only saying what I have seen on other websites. They are most peoples opinions about Gholston. They think that he is one of the best players in this draft as do I. Clady wont go before Gholston and neither will Mendenhall. Ryan may go at 5 but McFadden will probably go to Oakland and if he doesnt then Gholston will IMO.
Thing is, and even some of the experts fail to realise this, the draft isn't about just picking the best player available. He has to fit the system. Clady (powerful OT) and Mendenhall (power back) fit the Chiefs' needs way more than Gholston does at present. (I'd say the same for the Raiders, but Al Davis never does anything according to logic.) He may be the better player - and that's debatable - but the draft comes down to a lot more than that. I rate Chris Long higher than Jake Long, but I can see why Ireland and Parcells took the latter because we need an OT and Chris Long (like Gholston) projects as a linebacker in a 3-4. You never see linebackers go with the number one overall pick. They just aren't worth $30million guaranteed.

Have a read of Next Man Up by John Feinstein and The Draft by Pete Williams. They'll give you a far deeper understanding of the draft than Mayock, Kiper and a million internet mocks will, promise.

Finally, no website nor newspaper in Boston or anywhere else has a single clue what Pioli or Belichick are planning. They're the most secretive front office in the NFL, and nigh-on impossible to second guess.

pauldrulez 24-04-2008 08:37 PM

Have to agree with you there. Belichick will normally do the opposite to what people think he will. First round for Patriots will be different for Belichick since he doesnt have to pick down at the bottom. I dont think he will take a Running Back with Maroney being there. QB, out of the question with Brady there. The Offensive Line wont be touched IMO.
But, if McFadden is still on the board at 7, he will be at Foxboro next season as he is too good an opportunity to miss. Chris Long and Mr Muscleman;) would both be great picks for the Patriots. Dorsey wont fall that far as either Rams or Falcons will take him IMO.

I wouldnt mind Ellis or Rivers either but they would be the lesser options of the ones above.

If I was Belichick then my pick would not be wasted on a CB that early in the draft.

elliott 24-04-2008 08:42 PM

You also have to remember that coaches try to con each other as to what they really are believing. Keep talking about one player and then whammy, you go out and draft someone else.

Chester 24-04-2008 08:46 PM

Shaun Alexander rumoured to be heading to either Patriots or Indy.

Still lots can happen before saturday

pauldrulez 24-04-2008 08:53 PM

I heard the same about Alexander. Would fit into the Colts easily and I wouldnt mind him at the Patriots. Maroney was playing well in the post-season though and I wouldnt want him not to be a starter.

Ell, A lot of the teams are putting out smokescreens and I thought that the Jake Long rumours were a smokescreen until the deal was done.

elliott 25-04-2008 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pauldrulez
I heard the same about Alexander. Would fit into the Colts easily and I wouldnt mind him at the Patriots. Maroney was playing well in the post-season though and I wouldnt want him not to be a starter.

Ell, A lot of the teams are putting out smokescreens and I thought that the Jake Long rumours were a smokescreen until the deal was done.

Same.

I must say I'd have preferred Chris Long. I think he's the better player. However, how he would fit into a 3-4 I don't know, and I apreciate that's a concern.

Looking at it now, it's one of our major worry areas filled for a number of years (we hope), and so I'm very happy.

I'm also happy that we now can all buy a Dolphins lineman jersey. And he plays LT which rocks my world. The fact that he's a completely different style player to me is however irrelevant.

(part of the reason I want Chris is because I wear #75, and also love Howie Long. I have a Howie Long jersey which would've been cool to wear, especially if somehow Chris had assumed the #75 - Alas)

Strathclyde Eagle 25-04-2008 12:50 PM

Did anyone hear Shaun Alexander's statement? Pretty classy:
Quote:

“I especially want to thank the Seahawks fans,” he said. “You made me feel proud every time I stepped on the field as a member of the Seahawks. I look forward to hopefully returning to Qwest Field one day to play against the Seahawks.

“We have made far too many wonderful friends to say goodbye. My family will remain in the Seattle area, and when my days in the NFL do eventually come to an end, I plan to retire here. Our hearts are woven into the fabric of this community, we are blessed to be part of it, and we enjoy contributing to it in every way we can.”

“Thank you Seattle.”

saxoneagle 25-04-2008 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strathclyde Eagle
Did anyone hear Shaun Alexander's statement? Pretty classy:

Is that similar to what TO said when he left Philly? ;):D

pauldrulez 25-04-2008 06:47 PM

Anyone see Total Access today. Asked the 6 players attending the draft to give them a mock draft. After all saying that they only know that Jake will go to Miami, they then said they will give no more. They then gave away a whole list of names and the teams they will go to. Especially Matt Ryan who said. "I cant give any names as it wouldnt be fair". Or something to that effect. He then said "Jake will go at 1, Chris Long or Dorsey at 2, Hopefully me or Glenn at 3, McFadden at 4, Chris or Vernon at 5 and whoever is left will go at 6."
It was something like that, Dunno about you but it only made me more confused then ever. :D

Strathclyde Eagle 25-04-2008 06:57 PM

They're probably all scared that they're going to end up like Brady Quinn and sitting there alone for hours. I'd guess they don't want to jinx anything.

pauldrulez 25-04-2008 06:59 PM

One other thing about Mayock and what we have said before. He now has Jerod Mayo at 8. And McFadden at 12. Mayo is a good pick and the Patriots are raving about him and Antoine Cason. I would love the Pats to trade down and take Dallas's picks. Unlikely but I would love Cason and Mayo as it would give the Patriots the two positions that are badly needed in the First Round. With only one pick in the Top 50 it means that alot of talent will go between pick 7 and pick 62.

pauldrulez 25-04-2008 07:01 PM

Looking through the draft again, I cant see any of them slipping beneath No.8. If they do I can see them going to the Bengals anyway. Ryan will probably go at 3 or 8. He may even go the the Jets


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