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saxoneagle 08-04-2009 02:02 PM

Quote:

Does anyone think that the Lions will seriously just let the time run out on their pick? If they do that, then they will end up changing the rules for next year. The salaries are too high as it is for rookies. No way should Matt Ryan have been coming out with a contract as high as Manning and Brady.

It also causes the agents to complain about it. If Detroit race Seattle up at pick 4 and beat them and draft Aaron Curry after the Rams and Chiefs take the top 2 tackles, should he get the money for being 3rd player taken or 1st player taken as it was the first overall pick that was used. This could cause all sorts of problems.
It doesn't work like that. Yes, the Lions can "pass" but there is an unwritten rule that teams will not do this.

And if they did, they would then automatically become pick 2, not the "first overall pick picking second". :eek: :rolleyes:

FFS

pauldrulez 08-04-2009 02:39 PM

Look at the agents then.

Minnesota about 5 years back. They were looking at a trade but ran out of time.

I think they picked Kevin Williams at 9 after 2 teams legged it up to the podium to get their picks in ahead of them. The agent argued to the league that Minnesota were supposed to pick at #7 so the player should get that money. Whereas the Vikings argued they should have paid the money for the #9 pick despite it not being their fault.

I think the contract was inbetween the #7 and #9 money, but below it. But he had a higher amount of guaranteed money than he would have got for the #7 pick.

So if the Lions drop from #1 to #4 and take Stafford, the money may drop from the $80m 6-year contract with god knows how much money is guaranteed to $68m over the 6 years with less guaranteed money. This helps the Lions' cap room but it means that Stafford has less money than Ryan who was picked at #3 etc. It causes more stuff to be mixed up. The Lions should do it and say the money is too high for the cap.

If they finish last for another 2 years, then they get Stafford(or whoever) and they bust. They then select 2 more busts. They have so much money on the cap taken away by 3 awful players and they can do little about the contract then.

There's a whole debate about it somewhere else, but the rookie contracts need to be lowered.

pauldrulez 08-04-2009 03:01 PM

I'm fed up of talking about Mayock, Mayo and salaries.

I was listening to a podcast last night (NFL Rants and Raves, anyone listen to it?), and they were discussing the AFC teams and who they would take.

They had Heyward-Bey to the Dolphins? I'm not sure if that is the right guy for them, I think one of the DE/LB hybrids would be a better fit opposite Porter. Even just to learn the system for a year or two behind Porter. They also mentioned the Jason Taylor thing in the bit between the Phins and Pats and who he would choose or would get there first.

Strathclyde Eagle 08-04-2009 10:47 PM

They do need to sort out rookie salaries. To get to the point where the first overall pick is something teams don't want is ridiculous.

saxoneagle 08-04-2009 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strathclyde Eagle
They do need to sort out rookie salaries. To get to the point where the first overall pick is something teams don't want is ridiculous.

Agents having been taking the prior year contract, adding 5-7% on and sticking to it, and usually getting it, too.

I'd like to see rookie contracts limited in both salary and length with bonuses based on performance for the first 2-3 years outweighing guaranteed money.

Strathclyde Eagle 09-04-2009 12:24 AM

Fully agree. It is something the NBA certainly gets right. Make it so that players really earn from their second contract onwards.

If they could put in some way to give the team which drafted a player the best chance to re-sign that player that would be great too. Suspect it wouldn't happen because of jersey sales though.

jlmatthews 09-04-2009 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strathclyde Eagle
Fully agree. It is something the NBA certainly gets right. Make it so that players really earn from their second contract onwards.

Isn't it kind of apples to oranges though? Aren't NBA contracts guaranteed whereas NFL contracts are not?

Not arguing that you're wrong though...

pauldrulez 09-04-2009 11:19 AM

Guess what team he is from :D

I've put the team in dashes.

Like its hard to guess the team ;)
Quote:

BATAVIA, Ohio -- An Ohio State Highway Patrol spokesman says ---------- ------- cornerback Leon Hall was arrested in southwest Ohio and charged with drunken driving.

Patrol spokesman Lt. Tony Bradshaw says a state trooper stopped Hall just after 3 a.m. Sunday in Clermont County, west of ----------.

Bradshaw says the 24-year-old Hall was polite and cooperative, acknowledged he had been drinking and took a breath test that showed a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.149. The legal limit in Ohio is 0.08.

He's scheduled to be arraigned in Clermont County Municipal Court on Friday.

------- spokesman Jack Brennan referred to the team's "standard policy that we refrain from commenting on legal matters that are unresolved."

Benzhiyi 09-04-2009 12:15 PM

Anyone who follows the draft closely knows which team first round pick Leon Hall plays for, surely? ;)

elliott 09-04-2009 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzhiyi
Anyone who follows the draft closely knows which team first round pick Leon Hall plays for, surely? ;)

michigan???:p

jazman 09-04-2009 01:12 PM

Stupid question maybe, but who determines which player is the Number 1 draft pick? Is it Detroit as they have first pick?

saxoneagle 09-04-2009 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazman
Stupid question maybe, but who determines which player is the Number 1 draft pick? Is it Detroit as they have first pick?

Er, unless I'm mis-reading the question then yes, Detroit (as the worst team) get the first pick and therefore their pick will be the overall #1 pick in the draft.

However, you often hear teams referring to their #1 pick which will just mean they are referring to their own first round choice.

jazman 09-04-2009 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxoneagle
Er, unless I'm mis-reading the question then yes, Detroit (as the worst team) get the first pick and therefore their pick will be the overall #1 pick in the draft.

However, you often hear teams referring to their #1 pick which will just mean they are referring to their own first round choice.

Sorry, sounds a daft question I know. But that's what I thought. So the number 1 player from the draft is determined by the worst team of the previous season. But arguably doesn't really mean that the number 1 draft pick IS the best player as it depends on Detroits requirements .... Sounds a little daft, does it not? I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm talking rubbish.

pauldrulez 09-04-2009 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzhiyi
Anyone who follows the draft closely knows which team first round pick Leon Hall plays for, surely? ;)

Just think of the team that enjoys getting people arrested for a living :D

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/04/08/l...ested-for-dui/

Quote:

Cincinnati tempted legal fate on Tuesday by signing Tank Johnson, and on Wednesday, karma evened the score. Cornerback Leon Hall, who had a solid 2008 season, was charged with a DUI and driving left of center in Ohio.
My favourite line comes just after it
Quote:

While the frequency of run-ins with the law has slowed, I don't think anyone will be confusing Cincinnati with a Boy Scout troop anytime soon.
Bungals will want to draft Raji with his failed drugs test (rumoured:rolleyes:)
PJ Hill with his pending DUI and fleeing police officer charges
They'll need a new backup for Palmer so they may as well take Arizona QB Willie Tuitama with his extreme DUI charges.

pauldrulez 09-04-2009 02:50 PM

Jaz, you are talking less rubbish than I normally do :hi:

If you finish as the worst team in football, you normally have issues in multiple positions.

The top 4 players in this Draft(in my opinion) are 2 offensive tackles (Jason Smith and Eugene Monroe), a linebacker(Aaron Curry) and a hybrid DE/OLB player(Brian Orakpo).

But the key position is QB for the Lions in all likeliness. They can take either Stafford or Sanchez (both of whom are not worthy of top 10 and any other year would be low first rounders or slip into the 2nd round) or they can take the best player available who would be a Tackle to protect the QB which they don't have.

I think i've probably explained that in a million words more than I needed to. Let Strathers explain it in a sentence like he did with the rookie salaries :p

nookiebear 09-04-2009 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazman
Sorry, sounds a daft question I know. But that's what I thought. So the number 1 player from the draft is determined by the worst team of the previous season. But arguably doesn't really mean that the number 1 draft pick IS the best player as it depends on Detroits requirements .... Sounds a little daft, does it not? I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm talking rubbish.

Yes, this is correct. There was a great piece on one of those NFL shows on Sky about the worst teams in the NFL.

The Eagles were included. I think it was from the late 1960s. They were awful and were guaranteed the 1st overall pick - and then they started winning meaningless games at the end of the season and lost out :D

Poor old Philly, they even cock up losing :D

pauldrulez 09-04-2009 02:58 PM

NFL Top 10.

The Bucs got Number 1 IIRC. The ice cream man uniforms with the non-threatening pirate on the helmet :D

saxoneagle 09-04-2009 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazman
Sorry, sounds a daft question I know. But that's what I thought. So the number 1 player from the draft is determined by the worst team of the previous season. But arguably doesn't really mean that the number 1 draft pick IS the best player as it depends on Detroits requirements .... Sounds a little daft, does it not? I'm sure you'll tell me if I'm talking rubbish.

That is correct although the draft order does have a little "kink" in it which I only recently noticed.

The team with the worst record picks first and then the next worst and next worst and so on. This even extends to play-off teams.

For example, the 8-8 Chargers made the play-offs but will pick at 16, ahead of teams like Jets, Tampa and the Pats who didn't make the play-offs. The only teams this does not apply to is the Superbowl teams so 9-7 Arizona would pick around 19th based on their record but pick 31st based on getting to the big one.

As I gather, this changes from next season - the non-play off teams pick first in order of record, then the play-off teams pick in order of when they lose in the play-offs. Under the new rules, the Patriots would pick three places higher (the Chargers, Eagles and Vikings were all play-off teams but pick before us).

pauldrulez 09-04-2009 02:59 PM

For all those that would wish to join me in throwing up their lunch and last nights alcohol.

EDIT: Andre Smith pic deleted

saxoneagle 09-04-2009 03:01 PM

Oh, and any team finishing 0-16 has lots of needs :D

Personally, I would take an OT or Curry with their first pick and pick up a defensive player with pick 20 and play them from week 1. They will still have an early pick next year and can get a decent QB then.


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