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  #1301  
Old 18-03-2023, 10:34 PM
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Peyper ruined what could have been an interesting test for Ireland. England probably wouldn't have won but had competed well in the first half, but in rugby, especially against a top team, 14 will always struggle against 15.
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  #1302  
Old 18-03-2023, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnybegood View Post
Yellow was right decision, the red was a very tough call admittedly, but aside from that there were couple of scrum decisions, 1 for each that I thought were dodgy but not much else to blame the ref for
I'm not sure the ref had ever played the game.

Too many games are being ruined by red cards for contact to the head. I'm completely for stamping out dangerous play, but there will be times when players clash heads, or the randomness of open play simply results in bodies being in akward positions.

If you saw a kid try to pick up a fumbled ball from a knock on like that, they'd be told off, and told to fall on the ball. There's got to be some accountability for the attacking player doing something that's stupid.

The yellow was a bit soft. Marchant was behind the tackled player who went over him. That said, Willis probably shouldn't have given the ref a choice.

Prior to Irelands 2nd(?) try there was a clear high tackle on Watson. And a high tackle on Slade in the first half that went completely unnoticed. There's very little mitigation for a defending players arm going over the shoulder of an attacking player.

Was a better performance though. France looked much better than Ireland. France would have scored two tries from the two chances in the first 20 minutes.

If England can get Lawes, Curry and Underhill back the forwards will be looking pretty mean. Maybe switch Willis to 6.

9, 10 is still a weakness at internation level.

Manu cant be relied upon at 12 due to ongoing injuries.

Slade is showing he's OK at international level.

Steward, great under the high ball but doesnt offer much in attack.

Malins looking ok on one wing. No stand out candidates for the other wing yet.

However, we just need a bit of consistancy in the team selection.
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  #1303  
Old 19-03-2023, 12:31 AM
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  #1304  
Old 19-03-2023, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddfunk View Post
I'm not sure the ref had ever played the game.

Too many games are being ruined by red cards for contact to the head. I'm completely for stamping out dangerous play, but there will be times when players clash heads, or the randomness of open play simply results in bodies being in akward positions.

If you saw a kid try to pick up a fumbled ball from a knock on like that, they'd be told off, and told to fall on the ball. There's got to be some accountability for the attacking player doing something that's stupid.

The yellow was a bit soft. Marchant was behind the tackled player who went over him. That said, Willis probably shouldn't have given the ref a choice.

Prior to Irelands 2nd(?) try there was a clear high tackle on Watson. And a high tackle on Slade in the first half that went completely unnoticed. There's very little mitigation for a defending players arm going over the shoulder of an attacking player.

Was a better performance though. France looked much better than Ireland. France would have scored two tries from the two chances in the first 20 minutes.

If England can get Lawes, Curry and Underhill back the forwards will be looking pretty mean. Maybe switch Willis to 6.

9, 10 is still a weakness at internation level.

Manu cant be relied upon at 12 due to ongoing injuries.

Slade is showing he's OK at international level.

Steward, great under the high ball but doesnt offer much in attack.

Malins looking ok on one wing. No stand out candidates for the other wing yet.

However, we just need a bit of consistancy in the team selection.
To the traditionalists red cards for contact with the head may be ruining the game but the reality of these injuries (early onset dementia / even MND? etc) could already have made it an unviable game for the future I.e. legally & financially.

So whilst many in the coliseum would love the big hits & danger to continue, the authorities have no choice but to protect the players with safer-laws

By v.strict interpretation of the laws, there was dangerous contact to the head, there was no wraparound of arms. 2 other referees on the pitch & VAR were asked if they agreed - they all did. They were all asked if there was mitigation & none was offered by any of the 4.

Personally I thought that there were mitigations: Keenan's head had dipped and while the arms could have been wrapped, the reality was Steward was instinctively protecting himself from possible broken ribs, and his elbow braced for contact (which looked worse in slo-mo), but there was no real intent. Given this, I would have said it was an unintentional coming together and played on without any cards.....but the head injury law, in its strict interpretation was broken.

To he honest the spear tackle looked more of a red to me as there was a clear lift and drive down of the players shoulder into the ground, but a yellow was a fairer call IMO

I'd always prefer all 15 to stay on the pitch, every rugby fan loves a spectacle, the tension, the jeopardy etc, nor to give the either set of supporters an excuse for their bad sportsmanship - this is rugby: no whingeing & the ref is always right etc...& we should all be magnanimous in defeat & generous in victory
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  #1305  
Old 19-03-2023, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnybegood View Post
To the traditionalists red cards for contact with the head may be ruining the game but the reality of these injuries (early onset dementia / even MND? etc) could already have made it an unviable game for the future I.e. legally & financially.

So whilst many in the coliseum would love the big hits & danger to continue, the authorities have no choice but to protect the players with safer-laws

By v.strict interpretation of the laws, there was dangerous contact to the head, there was no wraparound of arms. 2 other referees on the pitch & VAR were asked if they agreed - they all did. They were all asked if there was mitigation & none was offered by any of the 4.

Personally I thought that there were mitigations: Keenan's head had dipped and while the arms could have been wrapped, the reality was Steward was instinctively protecting himself from possible broken ribs, and his elbow braced for contact (which looked worse in slo-mo), but there was no real intent. Given this, I would have said it was an unintentional coming together and played on without any cards.....but the head injury law, in its strict interpretation was broken.

To he honest the spear tackle looked more of a red to me as there was a clear lift and drive down of the players shoulder into the ground, but a yellow was a fairer call IMO

I'd always prefer all 15 to stay on the pitch, every rugby fan loves a spectacle, the tension, the jeopardy etc, nor to give the either set of supporters an excuse for their bad sportsmanship - this is rugby: no whingeing & the ref is always right etc...& we should all be magnanimous in defeat & generous in victory
It's absolutely right to eradicate, or at least try to, head contact. The issue I have is that when you issue red cards, it needs to be done with trying to force changing player behaviour in mind, so that when faced with similar situations, they consider their actions and don't go for the option of causing a head collision; if you repeat yesterday's collision, it's difficult to see what he could have done much differently at the speed it happened (the slomo made it look infinitely worse).

The tip tackle was much worse IMO, as he deliberately chose to pick him up and twist him, and while I'm not convinced he necessarily drove him down, having picked & twisted him, he couldn't expect much in the way of leniency.
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  #1306  
Old 22-03-2023, 01:05 PM
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Red card rescinded.
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  #1307  
Old 22-03-2023, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Eagle View Post
Red card rescinded.
The rules for allowing play on are:

Sudden and significant drop in player hieght.
Player has no time to readjust
Passive action
Involentery collision
No leading arm

The ref got it completely wrong.

That said, Warburton's comments about Farrell needing to speak to the ref straight away was interesting. You have to manage the ref.

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