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  #1  
Old 01-05-2008, 09:18 PM
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Ayrton Senna

14 years ago today

Gone but never forgotten, F1 died along with you that day

Also remembering Roland Ratzenberger
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:22 PM
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was that the same day we wo at middlesbrough
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:24 PM
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was that the same day we wo at middlesbrough
Yes
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:30 PM
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RIP Ayrton. Without doubt one of the Top 3/4 drivers of all time. I may not be old enough to remember the crash but I have seen the season review and the full race itself,

I hate to say it but this darkest of clouds had a silver lining.
If there wasnt a problem with that car then there would have been more deaths as the GPDA was then set up I believe and has made safety the ultimate concern. Kovalainens accident on Sun brought back memories of this crash. I can still hear Murray Walker saying "Ooh and its Senna, into the wall" Or words to that effect. Nobody knew Senna was dead in that crash, it was obvious he was seriously injured but it honestly didnt look as bad as some of the crash seen since, but the HANS device has no doubt stopped that and would probably have saved him.
Roland Ratzenberger, this crash makes me feel sick whenever I see it, his head lolling across the front of the car after the impact. There was not a huge fuss about this crash due to the Senna one the day later which overshadowed Ratzenberger.

Rubens Barrichello could have lost his life over this weekend as well, 14 years on and he is set to become the driver with the most races under his belt.

RIP Ayrton or as it was supposed to be said Ay-eerton
RIP Roland, you will never be forgotten either of you.
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by pauldrulez
RIP Ayrton. Without doubt one of the Top 3/4 drivers of all time. I may not be old enough to remember the crash but I have seen the season review and the full race itself,

I hate to say it but this darkest of clouds had a silver lining.
If there wasnt a problem with that car then there would have been more deaths as the GPDA was then set up I believe and has made safety the ultimate concern. Kovalainens accident on Sun brought back memories of this crash. I can still hear Murray Walker saying "Ooh and its Senna, into the wall" Or words to that effect. Nobody knew Senna was dead in that crash, it was obvious he was seriously injured but it honestly didnt look as bad as some of the crash seen since, but the HANS device has no doubt stopped that and would probably have saved him.
Roland Ratzenberger, this crash makes me feel sick whenever I see it, his head lolling across the front of the car after the impact. There was not a huge fuss about this crash due to the Senna one the day later which overshadowed Ratzenberger.

Rubens Barrichello could have lost his life over this weekend as well, 14 years on and he is set to become the driver with the most races under his belt.

RIP Ayrton or as it was supposed to be said Ay-eerton
RIP Roland, you will never be forgotten either of you.
The greatest of all time

Hans would have had no effect on Ayrtons chances of survival, he was killed by a suspension component piercing his crash helmet and skull, not by breaking his neck.

And TBF Kovalainens accident wasnt even close to looking anything like Sennas, it was into tyre barrier, not straight into a concrete wall (travelling faster than Kovalainen as well)
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:54 PM
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IMO he isnt the greatest as however much i hate him that is Schumacher. Most points, most wins, most world titles. I looked up a lot of stuff about Senna's death a year or two back as a sort if research project for school. Some of the theories are sick. The suicide theory is just wrong. Kova's accident was into a tyre barrier but he was in that tyre barrier within 0.1secs of the part failing.

I heard the crash helmet being pierced was the cause of death. What I heard was that it wasn't proven as that. Am I mistaken because TBH I spent my time looking through stupid forums about it.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by pauldrulez
IMO he isnt the greatest as however much i hate him that is Schumacher. Most points, most wins, most world titles. I looked up a lot of stuff about Senna's death a year or two back as a sort if research project for school. Some of the theories are sick. The suicide theory is just wrong. Kova's accident was into a tyre barrier but he was in that tyre barrier within 0.1secs of the part failing.

I heard the crash helmet being pierced was the cause of death. What I heard was that it wasn't proven as that. Am I mistaken because TBH I spent my time looking through stupid forums about it.


Suicide theory, incredible, almost as stupid as the 'Senna made a mistake' one it was clearly a failure of some component (almost certainly the steering rack) the car

The rocker arm was the cause of death, clearly. I've seen photos of his crash helmet where the hole from suspension arm is clearly visible. The volume of blood (quite rare in racing accidents) at the scene also suggests the same thing.

Schumacher was F1 driver for 16 seasons, usually in a front line car in an era of amazing reliability

Senna was in F1 for 11 and drove a number of season in less impressive and far les reliable machinery.

The fact that it took Schumacher 5 additional season to reach Sennas pole record tells its own tale.

Sennas opposition was also way above that Schumacher had generally.

Senna raced alongside Prost for 3 seasons, at the same time fighting Piquet, Mansell, Berger etc

Schumacher never had more than 1 rival a season and never had a team mate that in reality could or was allowed to race him.

Senna drove some of the greatest races ever seen, and certainly the greatest ever single race lap in an F1 car (Donnington 1993)

Had Senna lived Schumacher would not hold the records he does, they would all be Ayrtons
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:10 PM
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Re: Ayrton Senna

Quote:
Originally posted by 917L
14 years ago today

Gone but never forgotten, F1 died along with you that day

Also remembering Roland Ratzenberger
Good on you for mentioning Ratzenburger who died at the same Imola meeting if memory serves but his death is always overshadowed. I remember watching the race and can still see Senna's Williams crunching against the wall before spinning to a rest minus most of the wheels etc. and then after a brief period Murray Walker saying that he saw Senna's head move which he thought was a good sign!? Even at the most critical moments he still managed to get it all wrong.

Schumacher had been following him for most of the race, right behind him and probably would have won the race. In a way it was move over for the new kid on the block. Whether one was greater than the other will always be a matter of conjecture I guess. They both had their ruthless sides, Senna taking out Prost to win the Championship, Schumacher trying to do the same to Villeneuve. The latter won more races/crowns but for flair I'd pick Senna any day.

Discuss.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
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Re: Re: Ayrton Senna

Quote:
Originally posted by westsussexeagle
Good on you for mentioning Ratzenburger who died at the same Imola meeting if memory serves but his death is always overshadowed. I remember watching the race and can still see Senna's Williams crunching against the wall before spinning to a rest minus most of the wheels etc. and then after a brief period Murray Walker saying that he saw Senna's head move which he thought was a good sign!? Even at the most critical moments he still managed to get it all wrong.

Schumacher had been following him for most of the race, right behind him and probably would have won the race. In a way it was move over for the new kid on the block. Whether one was greater than the other will always be a matter of conjecture I guess. They both had their ruthless sides, Senna taking out Prost to win the Championship, Schumacher trying to do the same to Villeneuve. The latter won more races/crowns but for flair I'd pick Senna any day.

Discuss.
Schumacher tried to take out Villeneuve

He did take out Hill

Senna took out Prost, but this was as a result of the previous seasons travesty where the FIAs Balestre ensured that Prost won the title.

Remember Prost deliebrately crashed in Senna in Japan, somehow Senna restarted and went on to win the race. Afterwards he was disqualified for missing out the chicane (despite the fact it wasnt deliberate on his part) the anger he felt at what he (rightly IMO) felt was a French carve up, stayed with him and when the organisers chose to change which side of the grid the polesitter would start from in Japan he felt is was too much and chose to end the race at the first corner. Ethical, probably not, understandable? certainly

Watch some of the press conferences from the end of the 90 season, Senna is crushed by what he sees as a conspiracy, there is some truly amazing footage
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:22 PM
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westsussexeagle, I was going to mention Murrays' mistake in my first post, whenever I think of that incident that is one of the few things that pops into my mind. I looked in an autosport mag that was in my room and it had a picture of the podium that day. With Schumi, Larini and Hakkinen (I think thats right). Schumacher has a smirk on his face that makes me hate him. I know he didnt know he was dead but he could have had some respect for the occasion. Larini looks gutted and worried and Hakkinen looks close to tears.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:54 PM
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14 years,wow where does the time go. I remember exactly where I was at the time, in the back my dad's A-reg Ford Escort, on the A217 coming home from Sutton. Was shocked then, still wonder "what if he was around" now.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:11 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Ayrton Senna

Quote:
Originally posted by 917L
Schumacher tried to take out Villeneuve
I thought that's what I said?

He did take out Hill

Senna took out Prost
[/QUOTE]

I thought that's what I said too!


but this was as a result of the previous seasons travesty where the FIAs Balestre ensured that Prost won the title.

Remember Prost deliebrately crashed in Senna in Japan, somehow Senna restarted and went on to win the race. Afterwards he was disqualified for missing out the chicane (despite the fact it wasnt deliberate on his part) the anger he felt at what he (rightly IMO) felt was a French carve up, stayed with him and when the organisers chose to change which side of the grid the polesitter would start from in Japan he felt is was too much and chose to end the race at the first corner. Ethical, probably not, understandable? certainly

Watch some of the press conferences from the end of the 90 season, Senna is crushed by what he sees as a conspiracy, there is some truly amazing footage
[/QUOTE]

You have a view about Japan. I have another one. Senna missed the chicane which is/was against the rules. But to cry foul in such an unholy pastime as F1 is tantamount to aburdity. Conspiracy? ethical? These aren't appropriate words surely?
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pauldrulez
westsussexeagle, I was going to mention Murrays' mistake in my first post, whenever I think of that incident that is one of the few things that pops into my mind. I looked in an autosport mag that was in my room and it had a picture of the podium that day. With Schumi, Larini and Hakkinen (I think thats right). Schumacher has a smirk on his face that makes me hate him. I know he didnt know he was dead but he could have had some respect for the occasion. Larini looks gutted and worried and Hakkinen looks close to tears.
To be fair on Murray, Senna's head move had, I believe, been the result of autonomic response. I think at the time it was believed that a wheel had hit Senna in the head killing him instantly. I wasn't aware that it was actually a piece of the steering/suspension - I assume this all came out in the farcical and extended trial of the Williams team for murder/manslaughter?

You are right with the podium positions though although I don't remember it very well. I think I'd lost interest by then.
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Old 02-05-2008, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kolinkins
14 years,wow where does the time go. I remember exactly where I was at the time, in the back my dad's A-reg Ford Escort, on the A217 coming home from Sutton. Was shocked then, still wonder "what if he was around" now.
He'd probably overtake you between Burgh Heath and Tadworth
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:23 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Ayrton Senna

Quote:
Originally posted by westsussexeagle
I thought that's what I said?

He did take out Hill

Senna took out Prost


I thought that's what I said too!


[/QUOTE]

You have a view about Japan. I have another one. Senna missed the chicane which is/was against the rules. But to cry foul in such an unholy pastime as F1 is tantamount to aburdity. Conspiracy? ethical? These aren't appropriate words surely?
[/QUOTE]

You didnt mention HIll

Senna missed the chicane because he was pushed to a place of safety by the marshals (the majority of people still think he was excluded for getting a push start, but this was not the csae) The rules allowed a car to be moved and restarted as a by product of that. At no other time has such a draconian penaty been imposed for something that was beyond the drivers control.

Remember it was Prost who caused the accident. Senna was alongside him on the inside gooing ito the chicane, Prost turned in deliberately despite the fact the only possible outcome was to collide with Senna. As soon as the cars came to rest Prost undid his belts and walked away(believing he had done enough to become champion) Senna remained in the car got back to the pits afer being moved by the marshals and drove a fabuolus end to the race and win. Balestre had other ideas and ensured a French winner.

Remember Senna took the chequred flag and to all intents and puropses was the winner, it was only when Nannini appeared atop the podium that anyone knew about the disqualification.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:10 AM
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:38 AM
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RIP Ayrton and Roland. Worst racing weekend I can remember, but depressing as it was to watch and be reminded, its probably good to remember and to praise the massive amount of safety devices that have been employed on a modern F1 car.

Would love to have the San Marino GP back on the calendar as well, but can't see it IMHO.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:02 AM
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I cant believe its 14 years, I remember watching that race too, I wasnt overly keen on F1 at the time, but would pretty much watch any sport that was on (remember when sport was on Terrestrial TV!!!)

I know its my opinion, but I dont think that Schumacher would have the wins and records he finished with if senna was around. I have never seen a better overtaker of cars than Senna, in todays sometimes dull races (and racers) Senna would of been a breath of fresh air.

He is definitely the best I have seen in my lifetime. He was probably the most exciting I have seen too.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:21 AM
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Would love to have the San Marino GP back on the calendar as well, but can't see it IMHO.
Agreed it used to be my favourite track

I assume its because the facilities are not up to scratch that its no longer there, or is it just because Bernie can get more money pimping F1 off somewhere else?
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:05 AM
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Strathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStrathclyde Eagle : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mine
A more fitting reminder of Senna's talent:
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