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  #5121  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jaspercpfc View Post
Based on?

The disrespect being shown to Wilder and Dyche is staggering. People are so quick to dismiss Dyche's playing style without actually digesting what he's actually achieved. The beauty of Dyche and his clarets side is the ability to mix it up. Dyche has established a team who's players are disciplined and who understand the importance of defending, as well as a few with attacking flair, helping to balance their approach in different match situations. I'd urge anyone to re-watch our defeat against them last season.

Wilders tactics last season for a newly promoted side were not just brave, they are an indication of how this forward-thinking manager he was. They were a breath of fresh air to the EPL. Rewind 5 years and Sheffield United were sitting in the third tier and he did an outstanding job. He was creative and mainly employed a 3-4-1-2 or 3-5-2 formation and utilised overlapping centre-backs in order to overwhelm opponents in wider areas. His team was all about link up and pressing from the front out of possession. Ball retention was key and forging a defensive shape once possession had been lost. Chris Wilder showed ambition and was innovative in his tactics.
Spot on mate , 2 great managers .
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  #5122  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle Black View Post
No thanks,and turn these creative players into defensive midfield players.

Bye Roy and thanks.
Like he did with RLC
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  #5123  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Terrace Bickle View Post
Be fair Roy is only trying to show us all what we're going to go through in old age with the use of these tactics. Frustration, anger, confusion, inability to hit the target (the odd dribble aside) an occasional bout of incontinence, and long periods of boredom with the danger of nodding off.
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  #5124  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TWELLSEagle View Post
So we don't have good creative players? Not sure I buy that.
You’re completely missing the point to control a game imo you have to control the midfield and by not replacing YC & RLC with like for like we can’t play some of the attacking free flowing football that we did with them two in particular dominating things. Even Luka looked real class .
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  #5125  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
We have Eze, who still has lots to work on at this level. We would have Wilf, but weíre too reliant on him for goals. Thatís about it. Itís not exactly Zoltan Gera and Damien Duff.

Itís just going back to the infinite argument. I and many of the Roy sympathisers think our squad is very mediocre, you probably think itís decent.
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  #5126  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by orp pisshead1 View Post
Youíre completely missing the point to control a game imo you have to control the midfield and by not replacing YC & RLC with like for like we canít play some of the attacking free flowing football that we did with them two in particular dominating things. Even Luka looked real class .
No. I loved the 1990s team, they played without the ball, fast wing play. Likewise, pulis football was better than this. You absolutely do not have to control the midfield to control a game. In fact, plenty of teams have lots of impotent posession.

Why, for example, do we need to tap the ball around the back four - why can't we be more direct? Roy ball is some weird, play it out from the back, but skip the centre midfield abomination.
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  #5127  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TWELLSEagle View Post
No. I loved the 1990s team, they played without the ball, fast wing play. Likewise, pulis football was better than this. You absolutely do not have to control the midfield to control a game. In fact, plenty of teams have lots of impotent posession.

Why, for example, do we need to tap the ball around the back four - why can't we be more direct? Roy ball is some weird, play it out from the back, but skip the centre midfield abomination.
Thomas & Gray our greatest ever midfield partnership couldnít play football ?. Itís what we did when we had it that counts. Even wimbledon were quoted saying they hated playing us as we bossed them midfield . Roy said 18 months or so ago that the squad had 2 years Max and weíre now seeing what he meant. I think the loss of our Scottish terriers hasnít helped as at start of season we played well with a new formation which weíve kept a lot of the time( donít expect you to have noticed it tbh because you donít want too). Jairo is a good player but not strong enough overall for the pl imo.
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  #5128  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:40 PM
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Gray and Thomas were phenomenal, anyone who argues otherwise is a fool.
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  #5129  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orp pisshead1 View Post
Thomas & Gray our greatest ever midfield partnership couldnít play football ?. Itís what we did when we had it that counts. Even wimbledon were quoted saying they hated playing us as we bossed them midfield . Roy said 18 months or so ago that the squad had 2 years Max and weíre now seeing what he meant. I think the loss of our Scottish terriers hasnít helped as at start of season we played well with a new formation which weíve kept a lot of the time( donít expect you to have noticed it tbh because you donít want too). Jairo is a good player but not strong enough overall for the pl imo.
Don't put words into my mouth. I said we didn't play posession based football.
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  #5130  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:45 PM
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Gray and thomas were fantastic players, particularly andy gray IMO. But we did not play a posession game, we played long ball. I'd much rather we played that now to be honest. Much more exciting than two banks of four sitting deep. Passing around the back 4 before lumping it or losing posession.
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  #5131  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:47 PM
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Gray and Thomas were phenomenal, anyone who argues otherwise is a fool.
Gray and Thomas were warriors for sure and both got goals from midfield.
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  #5132  
Old 04-04-2021, 03:57 PM
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Both were extremely good passers of the ball too.
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  #5133  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Terrace Bickle View Post
Both were extremely good passers of the ball too.
They were indeed. We played long ball because of our pace up top. The point I am making is that it isn't Roy ball or tika taka. There are variations, including playing a long ball game.that 90s side had talent, passion and intensity. This squad is ok, and I don't believe surrenderball is the only way they can play.
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  #5134  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
As I said, Wilf is up front, too preoccupied to focus on creativity.

Ajax fans would laugh in your face if you described Jairo as a creative player. He played his best stuff there at left back. Heís a tidy ball recycler and possession player when played in midfield, but not a creator.

McArthur? Give me a break His career assists per season average is about 2. Thereís more to creativity than just assists of course, but he hardly dictates play from deep either, and Iím sure his progressive passing stats (if anyone can be bothered to dig them up) bear that out.

Schlupp is a converted left back for crying out loud, with minimal technical ability outside of a wicked shot. His only outstanding traits are said shot, his pace and his physicality.

Itís like weíre watching and analysing different players tbh.
Great post.

People are way too clouded by their judgement of their own players. We have arguably the worst midfield in the division and people want us to play on the front foot.

You said he played creative football at Fulham but he also did that here too as Iím sure you remember anyway.

I sometimes think weíre a little too negative at times but ultimately Hodgson doesnít have faith in the current players to play an expansive game. When we had RLC and Cabaye with Sakho starting the play it was the best stuff Iíve ever seen at Palace.

If Hodgson was 55 Iíd be open to him staying without a doubt, but itís his age that plays against him. We need to kick start something long term, either of Howe, Dyche or Wilder present great options and all would be fine due to the contract situation here.
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  #5135  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:18 PM
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  #5136  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaspercpfc View Post
Based on?

The disrespect being shown to Wilder and Dyche is staggering. People are so quick to dismiss Dyche's playing style without actually digesting what he's actually achieved. The beauty of Dyche and his clarets side is the ability to mix it up. Dyche has established a team who's players are disciplined and who understand the importance of defending, as well as a few with attacking flair, helping to balance their approach in different match situations. I'd urge anyone to re-watch our defeat against them last season.

Wilders tactics last season for a newly promoted side were not just brave, they are an indication of how this forward-thinking manager he was. They were a breath of fresh air to the EPL. Rewind 5 years and Sheffield United were sitting in the third tier and he did an outstanding job. He was creative and mainly employed a 3-4-1-2 or 3-5-2 formation and utilised overlapping centre-backs in order to overwhelm opponents in wider areas. His team was all about link up and pressing from the front out of possession. Ball retention was key and forging a defensive shape once possession had been lost. Chris Wilder showed ambition and was innovative in his tactics.
I didn't know much about Wilder but then I looked back at his career.

LMA League Manager of the Year in League Two, League One, the Championship and the overall one for Sheffield Utds promotion season.

That's not a fluke.

Whether he's a good fit for us I don't know
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  #5137  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:28 PM
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Didn't he win manager of the decade? Or was that Dyche?
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  #5138  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:35 PM
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Didn't he win manager of the decade? Or was that Dyche?
I think Howe won EFL or Championship manager of the decade.
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  #5139  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:48 PM
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Great post.

People are way too clouded by their judgement of their own players. We have arguably the worst midfield in the division and people want us to play on the front foot.

You said he played creative football at Fulham but he also did that here too as Iím sure you remember anyway.

I sometimes think weíre a little too negative at times but ultimately Hodgson doesnít have faith in the current players to play an expansive game. When we had RLC and Cabaye with Sakho starting the play it was the best stuff Iíve ever seen at Palace.

If Hodgson was 55 Iíd be open to him staying without a doubt, but itís his age that plays against him. We need to kick start something long term, either of Howe, Dyche or Wilder present great options and all would be fine due to the contract situation here.
Agree with most of this but these days I simply donít believe Ďbuilding something for the long termí has much to do with a Manager these days. They donít stick around long at Palace and Hodgson 4 year tenure stands out. With hindsight, we missed the opportunity to invest when he arrived 4 years ago to take advantage of stability but **** happens. The odds of another long term Manager any times soon with the challenges ahead next season seems low to me.

We seem to have fallen into a DOF structure due to the FDB fiasco and DFís timely Ďcup of coffeeí with SP was the extent of the selection process. Despite that, he is now the one that defines the long term I think.

The Manager has to deal with the hand dealt and takes the rap or credit more often than the DOF from what I can see. The hand dealt each year so far has been worse than the year before. We just have to hope whoever is in charge gets the result of the 4 years worth of planning and that itís been worth the wait.
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Old 04-04-2021, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
As I said, Wilf is up front, too preoccupied to focus on creativity.

Ajax fans would laugh in your face if you described Jairo as a creative player. He played his best stuff there at left back. Heís a tidy ball recycler and possession player when played in midfield, but not a creator.

McArthur? Give me a break His career assists per season average is about 2. Thereís more to creativity than just assists of course, but he hardly dictates play from deep either, and Iím sure his progressive passing stats (if anyone can be bothered to dig them up) bear that out.

Schlupp is a converted left back for crying out loud, with minimal technical ability outside of a wicked shot. His only outstanding traits are said shot, his pace and his physicality.

Itís like weíre watching and analysing different players tbh.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but why over the years has Hodgson never talked about wanting to add more creativity to midfield? (Or Atleast I canít recall much of that). Iíve always found it a bit bizarre that often when we had a bad result he would talk about our inability to take chances and that we needed more clinical strikers. The last couple of seasons itís seemed obvious to most that we actually create very little and that is the real problem. There have even been interviews where Roy has seemed to insist that we are creating chances when we clearly arenít. I think this has led us to this odd situation where we have stacked up strikers with £40m worth in Batshuayi and Mateta sitting on the bench. All the while in the background we acquired Max Meyer a centre midfielder, who we paid a kings ransom to and played him wide and the likes of Camarasa who never got a league start.

Iíd like our next manager to be someone who prioritises improving the centre of our midfield and is looking to move to a system that creates more chances. If Roy stays on Iím hoping he wonít just be talking about centre backs and centre forwards this summer.
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