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  #5381  
Old 09-04-2021, 09:06 AM
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I do not think that Howe is an organised defensive Manager. Never in the Premier League has been able to stop leaking goals and even in other seasons apart from their Promotion from the Championship to Premier League has he got a stand out record in my opinion. Score a lot yes, but also concedes a lot too.

19/20 - Scored 40 Conceded 65 - 7th lowest scorers & 3rd highest conceded
18/19 - Scored 56 Conceded 70 - 7th highest scorers & 3rd highest conceded
17/18 - Scored 45 Conceded 61 - 9th highest scorers & 4th highest conceded
16/17 - Scored 55 Conceded 67 - 7th highest scorers & 3rd highest conceded
15/16 - Scored 45 Conceded 67 - 8th lowest scorers & (joint) 2nd highest conceded
14/15 (Championship) - Scored 98 Conceded 45 - highest scorers & lowest conceded
13/14 (Championship) - Scored 67 Conceded 66 - joint 7th highest scorers & joint 7th highest conceded
12/13 (League One) - Scored 76 Conceded 53 - highest scorers & 9th lowest conceded
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  #5382  
Old 09-04-2021, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Norwich_Eagle View Post
I do not think that Howe is an organised defensive Manager. Never in the Premier League has been able to stop leaking goals and even in other seasons apart from their Promotion from the Championship to Premier League has he got a stand out record in my opinion. Score a lot yes, but also concedes a lot too.

19/20 - Scored 40 Conceded 65 - 7th lowest scorers & 3rd highest conceded
18/19 - Scored 56 Conceded 70 - 7th highest scorers & 3rd highest conceded
17/18 - Scored 45 Conceded 61 - 9th highest scorers & 4th highest conceded
16/17 - Scored 55 Conceded 67 - 7th highest scorers & 3rd highest conceded
15/16 - Scored 45 Conceded 67 - 8th lowest scorers & (joint) 2nd highest conceded
14/15 (Championship) - Scored 98 Conceded 45 - highest scorers & lowest conceded
13/14 (Championship) - Scored 67 Conceded 66 - joint 7th highest scorers & joint 7th highest conceded
12/13 (League One) - Scored 76 Conceded 53 - highest scorers & 9th lowest conceded
Which is an important point.

I know everyone loves to see exciting, attacking football but Im pretty sure the stats conclusively show that being defensively sound is far more important than scoring lots of goals when it comes to avoiding relegation.

If you are a side likely to be competing in the bottom 3rd - or possibly even half - of the table, then a defensively sound manager whose team doesn't always score a lot of goals is far more valuable than one who scores a lot but concedes more too.
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  #5383  
Old 09-04-2021, 09:17 AM
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If the choice was another season of Roy or Dyche/Howe or Wilder, I’d personally go Dyche all day long. He gets results on minimal expenditure (tick) his teams are hard to beat (tick) he plays the kind of football that wouldn’t require a change of what Palace are about (tick). Just my opinion and I continue to read with interest what others say with regards to Howe or another season for Roy.
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  #5384  
Old 09-04-2021, 09:23 AM
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Maybe Roy doesn't want another year.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if he decided to leave and retire. But it could go either way.
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  #5385  
Old 09-04-2021, 09:25 AM
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It has to be and will be Dyche
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  #5386  
Old 09-04-2021, 09:41 AM
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Wonder if the performance of the U18s makes the job a whole lot more appealing to a certain type of Manager than it was before. I can't imagine the prospect of taking over an old squad in need of a rebuild with seemingly limited funds would be everyone's cup of tea, but now we have some genuine talents coming through to supplement those in around the first team.

Have seen Lucien Favre being mentioned as a back-up option to Howe for Celtic and this is a guy that had a hand in developing Sancho, Reyna and Haaland while not being afraid to throw Bellingham and Moukoko right in. It didn't end well at Dortmund but he had success at clubs of a comparable size to us. Would have his name on my shortlist for sure.
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  #5387  
Old 09-04-2021, 09:53 AM
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Favre would blow everyone else out the water in terms of who is on this hypothetical shortlist.
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  #5388  
Old 09-04-2021, 10:17 AM
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Favre would blow everyone else out the water in terms of who is on this hypothetical shortlist.
He is being linked with taking a job in the Middle East. If we wanted him I think we could get him but maybe not on Parish list given no premier league experience. He would be my top pick.
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  #5389  
Old 09-04-2021, 10:18 AM
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I’d personally go Dyche all day long. He gets results on minimal expenditure (tick) his teams are hard to beat (tick) he plays the kind of football that wouldn’t require a change of what Palace are about (tick).
So exactly what the manager we already have does? Except Dyche is younger.
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  #5390  
Old 09-04-2021, 10:23 AM
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I mean that is a pretty big factor in this discussion to be fair.
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  #5391  
Old 09-04-2021, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Nostrils View Post
Apart from a few people who have never really taken to him, I think the majority would be happy for Roy to stay on if he played how we did against Everton more often. We were exciting to watch, the players looked like they enjoyed themselves and we didn't look any worse, on balance, than we usually do with the tight defensive set-up. I wonder if Everton gave us more space in the middle than we'd usually have though?

One thing I do know is, it would be a sorry affair if Roy left us at Anfield with no fans to send him off.
Players do look happier when let off of the leash.

I'd prefer a change of manager, but absolutely agree with your last paragraph.
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  #5392  
Old 09-04-2021, 10:58 AM
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Favre would blow everyone else out the water in terms of who is on this hypothetical shortlist.
Brett?
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  #5393  
Old 09-04-2021, 11:01 AM
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So exactly what the manager we already have does? Except Dyche is younger.
Been my point all along. We would have to pay to release Dyche from his contract at Burnley AND then (if the rumours are true) give him 50m to spend...why not give Roy another year and 50m to spend and save the Dyche money?
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  #5394  
Old 09-04-2021, 11:04 AM
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Been my point all along. We would have to pay to release Dyche from his contract at Burnley AND then (if the rumours are true) give him 50m to spend...why not give Roy another year and 50m to spend and save the Dyche money?
I wouldn't want to give someone a job for a year and task them with potentially the re-build in our history knowing that someone else will be coming in the following year and potentially want me to spend another £50m on getting rid of everyone and replacing them again.
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  #5395  
Old 09-04-2021, 11:16 AM
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Been my point all along. We would have to pay to release Dyche from his contract at Burnley AND then (if the rumours are true) give him 50m to spend...why not give Roy another year and 50m to spend and save the Dyche money?
Makes logical sense, but it would probably provide another recruitment hurdle to overcome, with players knowing that Roy wont be there in a years time, so maybe reluctant to sign with uncertainty over the long term Manager.
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  #5396  
Old 09-04-2021, 11:22 AM
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If the choice was another season of Roy or Dyche/Howe or Wilder, I’d personally go Dyche all day long. He gets results on minimal expenditure (tick) his teams are hard to beat (tick) he plays the kind of football that wouldn’t require a change of what Palace are about (tick). Just my opinion and I continue to read with interest what others say with regards to Howe or another season for Roy.
I think all suggested names along with Lampard (no more than a gut feel) are all stronger than previous names touted in the past. Although we've done well over the past several years appointing a manager they have probably been the obvious stand out selections amongst dross touted with the exception of FDB. Although I don't think FDB was backed with the players he required for the change he wanted to achieve but that's another story.

Get where you're coming from. Perhaps we've been presented with an opportunity to have a proper overhaul and style change. Could be a big risk though. Dyche would be seen as a solid pair of hands. Could probably slip into the Palace DNA that I've loved over the past 30 odd years of quick attacking football. Hard to beat and a strong collective team unit.

When people say fast attacking football I'm sure some presume its a sort of ticka taka brand. Its not, its moving the ball bloody quickly. I will not forget an excellent interview with Dyche last year when he was question about his style and alleged long ball specially from the keeper. He responded by saying he'd never stop his keeper playing it short but only if its done quickly as opposed for playing short just to keep possession then get swamped quickly by a press. The thing with Roy is no one can doubt what he has done for us and we're forever thankful. I think league position wise his worked wonders, but even I'm struggling with the style now.

Last Sunday was much better, but set against a very low bar. It wasn't ultra defensive but in all honesty we didn't create a lot and moved the ball very slowly. Thats was until the last 15 minutes where I saw a team moving the ball quickly, create more chances than in the previous several games and looked bloody good. Problem is that's 15 minutes in over a year going back to last season. In fact the last time I though we resembled any sort of play like the last 15 minutes last week was against Bournemouth away last season straight after the 1st lockdown.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:24 AM
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So exactly what the manager we already have does? Except Dyche is younger.
As Captain Mainwaring would say " I wondered who would be the first one to spot that "
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  #5398  
Old 09-04-2021, 11:25 AM
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Makes logical sense, but it would probably provide another recruitment hurdle to overcome, with players knowing that Roy wont be there in a years time, so maybe reluctant to sign with uncertainty over the long term Manager.
Would be a dumb player that expects and plans on the manager being there as long as they will be. reckon that would need to be back in the 60's or 70's? Long gone.

It's why the arguments about needing to get a new manager to align with the new signings makes no sense. It's fan speak and can't be a major factor on the Manager, players or Chairman's mind. Crikey, if it is we are all screwed.

Prior to Roy's arrival was there any PL club that had more Managers than Palace since 2010? Watford maybe who have an annual bring and buy it seems?
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:44 AM
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Been my point all along. We would have to pay to release Dyche from his contract at Burnley AND then (if the rumours are true) give him 50m to spend...why not give Roy another year and 50m to spend and save the Dyche money?
I guess if Dyche is the man we want and we can get him now then if you try to delay to next summer there is no guarantee he would still be available to us.

Even if he would cost us 5m now it may be deemed preferable to missing out on the man we want.

I'm also not sure if another year of near constant speculation about Roy and his contract will do any of our health any good.

I'm not against Roy staying on at all though.
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Old 09-04-2021, 11:48 AM
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Which is an important point.

I know everyone loves to see exciting, attacking football but Im pretty sure the stats conclusively show that being defensively sound is far more important than scoring lots of goals when it comes to avoiding relegation.

If you are a side likely to be competing in the bottom 3rd - or possibly even half - of the table, then a defensively sound manager whose team doesn't always score a lot of goals is far more valuable than one who scores a lot but concedes more too.
I remember Swansea`s time in Premier League , they played some excellent football for years , then changed their style to be more defensive and difficult to beat . It did not work for them as their players could not adapt and got relegated . Think it is more to do with what is the best way to play with the players you have .
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